Hard starting Yamato 102

[bill van steenwyk]

I did not look at the video he posted, so was not aware of ride height with the way he has the motor set now.

That ride height would seem to jibe with the appearance of his motor slightly tucked in. After he gets his starting problem ironed out, perhaps he might want to work on set up and get the boat freed up.

[BillCNC]

In short, with points set at say 0.012" (102 manual range is 0.012" to 0.016") for say top cylinder, rotate crank so dial indicator reads 0.228" (or what ever you want to set at) from top dead center of that piston. Then adjust the mag stop so the ignition point to that cylindere just breaks open as indicated with the buzz box just going off, then lock the mag stop. Then without moving the mag stop set the dial indicator to read 0.228" for the bottom cylindere and set those points to just open (they will not be same setting as the top but should not be less than 0.012"). If adjusted correctly the plugs will now fire at 180 degrees apart and at 0.228" before top dead center.

In each case adjust the dial indicator to read zero at top dead center before doing any adjustments for each cylinder.

Doesn't matter if you start with the top or bottom cylinder.

Daren, Bill, ans ZUL8ter,

Ok, ... let me clear up the confusion.

I started with the top cylinder, ... it was already at .228" but the bottom was .243. I used a test light and watched it dim as the points opened. The reason I didn't adjust the mag was the .228 was just fine were it is. I brought the bottom cylinder to .228 by adjusting the point gap for the bottom cylinder.

An any case, ... she already acts like a different motor, ... but so far, only on the stand.

[BillCNC]

I did not look at the video he posted, so was not aware of ride height with the way he has the motor set now.

That ride height would seem to jibe with the appearance of his motor slightly tucked in. After he gets his starting problem ironed out, perhaps he might want to work on set up and get the boat freed up.

I'm all for that, ... does that mean I need to kick the bottom of the motor out a tad, and if so, ... wheres the adjustment and can it be seen on the parts diagram?

Thanks a bunch guy's!!!

[bill van steenwyk]

I'm all for that, ... does that mean I need to kick the bottom of the motor out a tad, and if so, ... wheres the adjustment and can it be seen on the parts diagram?

Thanks a bunch guy's!!!

BillCNC:

I do not have any experience with the 102 kickout mechanism, but if it is like or similar to the Model 80, go to page 18 of your manual and look at parts #28 and 35. This looks to be very similar to the way the Model 80 kickout bracket was made. The small "blocks" (#28) abut against the rod (#35) on each side and control the amount of "kickout" that the motor has., after clamping the motor securely on the transom.

The kickout adjustability of these engines leaves something to be desired, as they were manufactured to fit one boat design used in racing in Japan and did not have to conform to all the different transom angles used here in the US on boats built here.

What I did with my 80's was I had several of the small "blocks" made of varying thickness that allowed the motor to be at different angles by putting in or taking out these different thickness blocks. Others have designed and manufactured "kickout brackets" that mount on the transom and have a male threaded piece that fits into a female threaded piece, with a "Y" or "U" shaped piece on the end that the front edge of the tower housing rides on. By turning the male piece in or out in the female piece, you can kick the motor out or in to a very fine adjustment.

You indicated that you were "handy" and could make a lot of things, so perhaps your first fabricated piece should be a bracket for the boat that would allow infinite adjustment of the motor angle.

If you don't want to go to that trouble until you figure it out a little, get some paint stirring sticks from the hardware store and slip them between the BOTTOM of the clamp bracket and the transom. Very cheap and easy, but be sure to have you motor clamps tight and also a "tiedown" rope around the tower housing of the motor. You could use one or more of these short pieces of paint stick to make the adjustment until you found out how much you needed to come out and then make something permanent such as several #28 blocks of varying thickness. If you look at some of the pictures of CSH boats for sale, you will probably come across one or more of the fabricated transom brackets to serve as a guide for fabrication.

Just put the paint stir stick across the transom under each clamp bracket AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BRACKET and that will kick the bracket out at the bottom which will accomplish what you want. Don't cut or break the stick in two, but let it go across all in one piece, and be sure you have the motor clamped down tight when you use the straight edge as discussed previously to check the prop shaft angle to boat bottom.

[ZUL8TR]

clear up

Daren, Bill, ans ZUL8ter,

Ok, ... let me clear up the confusion.

I started with the top cylinder, ... it was already at .228" but the bottom was .243. I used a test light and watched it dim as the points opened. The reason I didn't adjust the mag was the .228 was just fine were it is. I brought the bottom cylinder to .228 by adjusting the point gap for the bottom cylinder.

An any case, ... she already acts like a different motor, ... but so far, only on the stand.

No confusion just not enough detail at first but good that you have it set.

[S Henderson]

Timing

Bill C
Keep in mine those new points may change after you run the engine a little.
So you will want to re-ck your timing. In fact if you do a lot of running you
will want to check timing pretty regular.

[BillCNC]

Bill, ...

Thanks, that was some pretty good info to remember, ...

I located the mechanism right were you said it was. I can see some of the issue, some parts are worn making the shims .060" thinner than when originally installed. I found it odd that there was a .025"rubber shim in the mix. I can understand the shock dampening effect, ... but for a shim, is this normal?

I'll make some new shims without so many different components. I'll make a set that will bring the original height that the current components would have been before being worn that will include the .060" and I think I will make a second set that will be another .060" and see if that will kick it out to were I need to be. Do you think .060" increments would be a start, or will it not move it enough?

Anyhow, ... here is the breakdown of the components.

[BillCNC]

ZUL8TR,

Sorry about that.

S Henderson,

Thanks, ...

I'll keep an eye on that. I went through the same issues with my 68,69 and 70 Dodge Chargers back in the day.

[DtwSailor]

Fun police

OK, here comes the fun police!
I took a look at your videos, and am glad that you are getting the engine details finalized. However, I wanted to bring up a point for you to STRONGLY consider.
Even though this is just a lake toy, and not a racer, you will be able to achieve speeds greater than 50 MPH. The life jacket you are wearing in your video will rip right off you if you decide to go for a swim and you are not wearing a helmet.

At minimum, look at getting a race jacket and helmet. You will still enjoy the fresh air in your face, but your noggin will be protected.

I'm only saying as I have now had the experience of going for a swim during a race.

Just a piece of friendly advise. Enjoy!
MD

[BillCNC]

OK, here comes the fun police!
I took a look at your videos, and am glad that you are getting the engine details finalized. However, I wanted to bring up a point for you to STRONGLY consider.
Even though this is just a lake toy, and not a racer, you will be able to achieve speeds greater than 50 MPH. The life jacket you are wearing in your video will rip right off you if you decide to go for a swim and you are not wearing a helmet.

At minimum, look at getting a race jacket and helmet. You will still enjoy the fresh air in your face, but your noggin will be protected.

I'm only saying as I have now had the experience of going for a swim during a race.

Just a piece of friendly advise. Enjoy!
MD

MD,

I fully understand the concern and you are correct. I wanted to make sure it worked reasonably well before plunking down the extra money for a life jacket and helmet.

I am currently looking for the items and the possibility of a cut suit.

Thanks for the reminder
Bill

[PRO-MOTIONRACING]

You might need an assortment of different bolt lengths and shim thicknesses for a range of adjustment. Most any material will work like the ones you have. Use a straight edge or level to check that the prop shaft is level with the bottom of the boat. when doing this with a straight edge the prop-shaft and the straightedge must me vertically parallel, then get down low (sitting) and eyeball the angle. Add or remove shims till the prop-shaft is horizontally parallel to the bottom of the boat as a starting point. Changing the angle will also raise and lower the prop-shaft height so that will need adjust with shim (paint) sticks on top the transom. I would recommend 3/4 as a minimum until you are sure the thing is flowing water.

[BillCNC]

You might need an assortment of different bolt lengths and shim thicknesses for a range of adjustment. Most any material will work like the ones you have. Use a straight edge or level to check that the prop shaft is level with the bottom of the boat. when doing this with a straight edge the prop-shaft and the straightedge must me vertically parallel, then get down low (sitting) and eyeball the angle. Add or remove shims till the prop-shaft is horizontally parallel to the bottom of the boat as a starting point. Changing the angle will also raise and lower the prop-shaft height so that will need adjust with shim (paint) sticks on top the transom. I would recommend 3/4 as a minimum until you are sure the thing is flowing water.

I think the bolt length is fine, with all those shims, I still have .383" of threads remaining.

I went and bought a piece of aluminum 1/8" x 6." x 6' and a couple of blocks that ate 3/4" and 1." thick to make a height and an angle checker. I'm trying to get measurements to make them, but I only have fuzzy photos from the web.

Anyone wanna take measurements of those two tools so I can make them? There just to dang expensive for what they are, ... otherwise I would have already bought them.

[PRO-MOTIONRACING]

Just hold that 6' up to the bottom of the boat to see how close you are?

[BillCNC]

Ok, ... I'm headed out to the lake tomorrow to try out the tweaks you guys had suggested and a few of my own. I probably should have tested the boat while doing one tweak at a time so that it could be a little easier to see the results of each tweak, but the weather is starting to really swing into the winter mode out here in the So. Cal. desert. Last Chance this year.

Here is what I have done over the last few days.

1). Made new Nylon blocks to set the engine angle. The blocks pictured are .941", the original height of all the shims I removed. I also made a set of blocks at 1.075" that I will test out just to see how much of a difference .134" would make.

2). I replaced the 18mm head for a 14mm head, ... no more inserts!

3). I took the gravity feed system off and put installed a Fuel pump from BTM. Everything went on easily but I have concerns about the top two nuts loosing some threads due to the thickness of the fuel pump mounting bracket. I think the .125" thick aluminum is a little much for what it's purpose is. It could have been made from .093" or .062" aluminum and still been stout enough to do the job. After the testing tomorrow, I think I might thin the mounting tabs on the end mill so I can gain those lost threads back. Other than that, Maybe replacing the studs with some that are a little longer is an option, but I think modifying the mounting plate is the safest and easiest way to solve the issue. The new blocks now make the prop shaft have about a 5* tilt outward. The center of the shaft is 7/8" below the bottom of the hull.

4). I made the remote fuel lines and modified a 3 gallon portable fuel tank. I had to install a fuel return fitting. I also added some Mercury quick connects. I'm going to test the new fuel system in about an hour, ... keep your fingers crossed.

[BillCNC]

The portable tank.