Stock Chairman's Long Term Plan

[ricochet112]

The New Merc 15?

If I had any say in how to combine classes or restructure Stock Outboard, this would be my proposal. Keep in mind there must be a plan in Stock Outboard for NOW and for the FUTURE.

J-OMC, new Sidewinder
A-OMC, new Sidewinder,
B-Yamato 80, new Sidewinder 20cu.in., Hot Rod 15cu.in.
C-Yamato 102/302, Merc 25SS, Hot Rod 20cu.in.
D-Merc 44, Tahotsu

ADD: you could even incorporate the old Merc.'s into the structure listed above.

There would have to be parity committees for all classes listed above but as they say "the fastest will survive" and those who do not want to invest in new equipment will still have a place to race. Not everyone cares to win the nationals, some just want to race and have fun and the plan above would allow for this. Tackle one category at a time then consider combining categories. One step at a time!!!

Now, if you do not like more than one motor per class, then elimination will have to occur, and it will not be pretty. Without the support of large manufacturers suppling large quantities of new motors and parts, this would almost be impossible. Not to mention that all new motor from large manufacturers will be either 4-stroke or E-Tech engines. Pick your poison!

Was omitting the new Merc 15 an oversight? It would be a shame to see 1 of the only 3 current stock motors be left out.

One of the best class combo's I've seen yet (except for the Merc 15)!

On a side note, having a separate category for J seems odd. I've talked to Ernie and he's told me the reasons why, BUT having to add an extra category fee ($100!) to the sanction is dumb when they are a stock class.

[mercguy]

AOF and NBRA also do not have a D Stock class, genious. They put the Tohatsu in their Super E class which is like APBA's Formula E in Mod. In fact, I don't think they even put it in their version of our D Mod Class (they call it E Haiydro) but I could be wrong about that. Even if they did, the comparison is not the same. We are talking about this engine being in D Stock which has slower speeds than DMod or FE.

Darren: Have you ever heard that "in-fighting" is not constructive? I support the restrictions being lessened on the Tohatsu. But the process has to be fair. If you were chairing the committee, the 44 guys would still be boycotting the class. Have you thought about that?

BTW: just because you used to think I was smart, does not make it so!

genious Ed, AOF runs the Tohatsu with the 40cube Mercs (D class) ! My point is that they allowed the Tohatsu with open arms!

"in-fightning"..............it is not a fight, but a debate, you should know the difference smart guy.........

PS: does the West Coast have a say in what happens with SO racing? Seems you always base your decisions on East Coast input...........

PS: if you expect me to kiss your %%**! just because you are the chairman, well that ain't gonna happen........

[chicagopaul]

Another Counrty Heard From ....

As I see it the problem is "stagnation" due to short sightedness for many, many years. What I am about to propose needed to be done 30 years ago. But, ya gotta start sometime and now is as good a time as any. It is a varaition of some of the views of those who have provided constructive ideas. Without an “On going” format we will always have turmoil regarding change. When 4 cycle engines, or Hydrogen or Elec, or whatever appears next, you have to start all over again. A "Phase Out" "Phase In" seems to be the only practical solution.

Using “A” as an example:

1st Year of "Phase Out - Phase In"
Two Classes A / AP (“A” Probation) Both run together / No restrictors. Max 8 Total Boats per heat at local races. Nationals, both classes would run together but would get separate prizes and points. “Phase In” allows for Parity issues and provides a format for the future.

Separate Prizes and points
A - 1/1/07 – 12/31/08 OMC (No change)
1/1/08 – 12/31/09 OMC (No Change)
1/1/09 – 12/31/10 Final Year OMC
1/1/10 – 12/31/11 OMC no longer legal.
1/1/11 – 12/31/12 Start to see some 4 cycles
1/1/12 – 12/31/13 More 4 cycles, less 2 cycles
1/1/13 – 12/31/14 4 Cycle. Start to see some Hydrogen? Elec?
And So Forth ……


Separate Prizes and points - Minimum 3 boats for points 1st year.
AP – “A” Probation
1/1/07 – 12/31/08 “ALL” 15 ci engines are legal No restrictors. Min 3 boats for points first year only.
1/1/08 – 12/31/09 OMC no longer legal in “AP” Final decisions re: Parity Issues.
1/1/09 – 12/31/10 Mixed AP 2 and 4 cycle. Consider Parity issues.
1/1/09 – 12/31/10 2 and 4 Cycle Final decisions re: Parity
1/1/10 – 12/31/11 4 Cycle and 4 Cycle Hydrogen?

…. and so forth as technologies change. At some point have a separate 2 cycle and 4 cycle class, then Electric, or Hydrogen or what ever the next technology is.

Use the above examples to “Tweak” the future of other classes.

Something to think about.

[14-H]

genious Ed, AOF runs the Tohatsu with the 40cube Mercs (D class) ! My point is that they allowed the Tohatsu with open arms!

***

PS: does the West Coast have a say in what happens with SO racing? Seems you always base your decisions on East Coast input...........

PS: if you expect me to kiss your %%**! just because you are the chairman, well that ain't gonna happen........

Darren: Check the record books, the 44 Stocks will not go as fast as the old D Class mods (40 cu.in.). In fact, I recall quite a few races in Ohio back when the C Mod Runabout class was still "alive" and watching Gary Miller in his C Mod R Merc (30 cu.in.) pass Mike Ross in his D Stock Runabout with a 44XS, from behind, on the outside.

See, here's where I get to thinking you're drinking. The entire basis I have for supporting the lessening of restrictions on the Tohatsu comes from information I have received from Region 10. Also, I don't know of anyone who runs D Stock on the East Coast so I'm not sure what you're talking about unless you're suggesting that Michigan is on the east coast again.

I don't expect you to suck up (in fact, by now you ought to know that type of stuff is not important to me at all). But I do expect you to know what you're talking about and to make cogent arguments. Sorry for the high standards. Ed.

[14-H]

***. A "Phase Out" "Phase In" seems to be the only practical solution.***.

This is a perfect way to run things if you have new equipment readily available. The problem is that we don't. I don't know how you can phase out old equipment when you don't even know what you're going to replace it with.

Besides, let's look at the C Class again. Why do we necessarily have to obsolete the old engines (102's)? I rather think having both engines in the class, with efforts to make the new engine desirable, is much more appropriate than putting the death mark on the old stuff.

And I still say that will work. Look at AXS: a new engine is readily available and people buy it and can win with it. But other people also can go out and look for the old engine, put it together and win with that too.

[14-H]

No Response Found

**If you were chairing the committee, the 44 guys would still be boycotting the class. Have you thought about that?

***

Darren: Did I miss the response to this, or was that the kissing azz comment? Ed.

[chicagopaul]

Stock J,A,B,C,D ... Eliminate other Classes ....

I strongly agree with the idea of "continued" reevaluation of engines as technologies move forward. I also agree in increasing the number of boats per heat. Also, I think that all racing should be able to be accomplished in 4 to 6 hours.

If this requires a reduction in the number of classes I am all for it!

J, A, B, C, D, OSY make sense to me. (I know OSY is not stock, but maybe it should be. After all it does stand for "Original Stock Yamato.")

A gentlemen posted an idea that would result in eliminating 20ssh and 25ssh and perhaps 1 or 2 others.

I weigh 140 lbs. I run 20ssh (Added weight of 20 lbs) and OSY and was seriously considering buying a 25SSH rig.

"A" and "B" do not appeal to me.
I am too light for C and D. (To run C I have had to add 50 Lbs. Handling is affected dramatically. I don't feel safe, so I don't run "C". D would be even worse.)

So if 20ssh and 25ssh are eliminated ....

I'm not going to quit, or sell all my gear in a huff, or kick, scream, curse or cry (Boo Hooo) .... I will adapt!

Gotta change my mind about "A" or "B" or figure how to add 50 Lbs weight to "C". Maybe only run OSY. Perhaps reconsider PRO or OPC. (Traveling is a big, big problem though. Can't take that much time off work.)

My point is, for this sport to stay alive there will have to be sacrifices. Let's just bite the bullet and do what it takes. But, lay a foundation that people can predict 1, 3 and 5 years down the road. For the few who say 5 years is too long, well then just read the 1 and 3 year plan and ignore the 5 year plan. But, don't discourage others from planning and moving forward for the future.

Chicago Paul

[chicagopaul]

Ed,

Valid points. You need to get past the immediate issues.

Just throwing stuff out. You see something you like use it. If not maybe it will help you or someone else think of something useful.

Chicago Paul

[MGallagher]

STOCK
J-Keep as is
AX-cut
A-OMC out in 2-3 years with commitment of 50-100 new 15ci motors from Racing Outboards LLC
B-Old Hot Rod out 1-2 years with commitment of 50-100 new 20ci motors from Racing Outboards LLC
20ssh-cut (run B or C Mod)
25SSR & 25SSH-cut (run B or C Mod)
C-102 out in 2-3 years ;302 only
D- Merc out 2-3 years :Tahatsu only(with adjustments for easier inspection)

MOD
FA- any 15ci engine 10 ft hull
BM- any 20ci engine 10 ft hull
25M- cut
CM- anything between 20ci to 30ci 12 ft hull
DM- anything between 30ci to 44ci 12 ft hull
FE- anything between 40ci to 49ci 12 ft hull

Any motor that was not included in the STOCK column would be able to be used in the MODS. Anything goes, that is why it is MOD. Safety issues could be addressed using some of the current rules and some new ones.

20 classes/40 heats/backward points(ie: 5 boats 7th to 12th point values, 12 boats 1st to 12th values)/ freeze all records and start new ones/ 6 nationals(Short Course; Long Course; Midwest Nationals; West Coast Nationals; East Coast Nationals; End of Year Nationals)

Just thought I would throw-up all over the page and call it an idea!

[jsilvestri]

Was omitting the new Merc 15 an oversight? It would be a shame to see 1 of the only 3 current stock motors be left out.

One of the best class combo's I've seen yet (except for the Merc 15)!

On a side note, having a separate category for J seems odd. I've talked to Ernie and he's told me the reasons why, BUT having to add an extra category fee ($100!) to the sanction is dumb when they are a stock class.

That was an oversite.

[jsilvestri]

Matt, see you at Lock Haven. Glad to hear you are joining the CSR field.

[Ron Hill]

Yo 400

I think OSY 400 in UIM means Outboard Stock Yamato...(They say things backward in other languages...Marcel Belleville always asked me "What this is?" I'd say, "You mean WHAT IS THAT???" He'd get excited and strat talking French...

Anyway, I have decided to RE-Name the UNIVERALS Yamato Class to YO 400.

(Yamato Outboard)..

YO 400 (OSY 400 Rules, just a name change)...:

1. Winter Nationals
2. National Nationals (Stock/Mod) (YO 400 with the best bid either Stock or Mod Nationals)....
3. DePue Nationals
4. Loch Haven Nationals (Or where ever they race ROLL UPS in New Jersey)...

Yes, folks four Nationals for YO 400 drivers....Three heats, like DePue does it....at least.

[mercguy]

Darren: Check the record books, the 44 Stocks will not go as fast as the old D Class mods (40 cu.in.). In fact, I recall quite a few races in Ohio back when the C Mod Runabout class was still "alive" and watching Gary Miller in his C Mod R Merc (30 cu.in.) pass Mike Ross in his D Stock Runabout with a 44XS, from behind, on the outside.

See, here's where I get to thinking you're drinking. The entire basis I have for supporting the lessening of restrictions on the Tohatsu comes from information I have received from Region 10. Also, I don't know of anyone who runs D Stock on the East Coast so I'm not sure what you're talking about unless you're suggesting that Michigan is on the east coast again.

I don't expect you to suck up (in fact, by now you ought to know that type of stuff is not important to me at all). But I do expect you to know what you're talking about and to make cogent arguments. Sorry for the high standards. Ed.

Eddy my boy, I was NOT just refering to the Tohatsu issue, but also of the C stock issue, which you ARE basing your decisions on. I should have made myself more clear on that. I understand you making appropriate changes with the Tohatsu D issue, based on info from Reg10, where they are more prominant.

isn't the point of a parity to have a decision made by un-biased thoughts? How can that be with a devoted 44XS racer involved?


..............I guess you MUST be right, I DO NOT know what I am talking about, so make your comments and decisions based on that, as you know it all........

[mercguy]

Darren: Did I miss the response to this, or was that the kissing azz comment? Ed.

you obviously missed my point.............I would NOT want to be on the committee, as I would not have an un-biased opinion.........

as to the 44 owners (certain ones) boycotting, that is their choice...........let them do what they want, it is their loss...........

DID I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR???

[Cameraboy]

This is a perfect way to run things if you have new equipment readily available. The problem is that we don't. I don't know how you can phase out old equipment when you don't even know what you're going to replace it with.

The Merc 15 and 302 (not really new, but in production) are readily available, and the Sidewinder and Tohatsu (new, but not available in large quantities) theorectically could be. Continuing with the theorectical, those could be 4 current production motors for four classes.

What isn't apparent is the next step after those motors. Maybe we need to be thinking about what kind of new motors we'll be using in ten years. Four stroke ethanol powered? That's long term thinking.

As the economists say, in the long term, we're all dead