Stock Chairman's Long Term Plan

[Ron Hill]

Keep AXS

Matt...et al... I didn't read your whole post but:

1 Keep AXS, they are faster than "J" but slow enough to be a good speed...Drop "J" keep AXS...

2. ADD TITLES: We now have Winter Nationals and Summer Nationals: Add Spring Nationals. DePue Summer Nationals, New Jersey Nationals...Parker, Fall Nationals...

Why do we need a WINTERNATIONALS and Summmer Nationals??? Why not have five Nationals per year???...Super Cross has a Nationals Champion per event!!!

[MGallagher]

Darren- Your EPA questions should be answered at the national meeting. As to your other comments about "forcing to buy a new motor," racers would not have to they would just be running "mod" with there old stuff.
Mr. Hill- I believe AX to be too fast for the current J drivers. Personally my wife would not let my son race a 45 mph boat at 9 years old. As to your other point wouldn't that diminish the importance of a national champion. Super cross has hundreds of competitors per nationals we would probably only have a hundred. I DO like the idea of being a national champion without leaving my state. Maybe each nationals could be a different type of course or "Roll-up only" Nationals, now that would be great. You know what I think I just did a 180, that is a great idea!!

Matt Gallagher
58J

[jsilvestri]

If I had any say in how to combine classes or restructure Stock Outboard, this would be my proposal. Keep in mind there must be a plan in Stock Outboard for NOW and for the FUTURE.

J-OMC, new Sidewinder
A-OMC, new Sidewinder,
B-Yamato 80, new Sidewinder 20cu.in., Hot Rod 15cu.in.
C-Yamato 102/302, Merc 25SS, Hot Rod 20cu.in.
D-Merc 44, Tahotsu

ADD: you could even incorporate the old Merc.'s into the structure listed above.

There would have to be parity committees for all classes listed above but as they say "the fastest will survive" and those who do not want to invest in new equipment will still have a place to race. Not everyone cares to win the nationals, some just want to race and have fun and the plan above would allow for this. Tackle one category at a time then consider combining categories. One step at a time!!!

Now, if you do not like more than one motor per class, then elimination will have to occur, and it will not be pretty. Without the support of large manufacturers suppling large quantities of new motors and parts, this would almost be impossible. Not to mention that all new motor from large manufacturers will be either 4-stroke or E-Tech engines. Pick your poison!

[csh2z]

Answering these questions and developing a short term & long term plan for the future of Stock Outboard has been put in the hands of the (new) S.O. Steering committee. We are working on this as we speak and we are hearing what all of you folks are saying. We can continue debating this topic until we're blue in the face but EVERYBODY is not going to agree on any issue. Please relax and allow the steering committee time to do what we volunteered to do. We are very enthusiastic and focussed about this assignment and we will be successful. I do not expect any immediate changes to come out of this national meeting. We are going there with the intention of informing the commission as to our current status and our goals, and to listen to their thoughts on these issues. John Runne 2-Z

[MGallagher]

Roll-Up Nationals, Denton Maryland Woo-Hoo!!!!<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" oreferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <vath o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" style='width:526.5pt; height:342.75pt' filled="t" fillcolor="green"> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DO***E~1/Matthew/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.png" o:title=""/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->

[jsilvestri]

Matt,

With all of this roll-up talk, I hope I do not see a side-fin on your 25SSR this summer.

[Blackhawkguy]

I hate quoting numbers

Ed, I hate using numbers because I know they are not correct but you understood the point. The Ambulance is something I forgot about but we always tried to get it donated or at a reduced cost. It is still a big chunk of change also for a weekend. I am not sure how you will solve the issue of to manny classes, all day racing has always been the norm. I am thinking a time limit from date of last produced motor, say five years after a motor is not produced it has to leave stock, it can be adopted by the mod division if they want or run antique. Something needs to be put in place that cannot be by-passed or have a lope hole that will allow a motor to hang around to long. People will adapt as required to the change, if given a few years to buy a new motor they will do so if they really are commited to racing. The price of a motor is getting a little steep so its a much bigger investment than before. I definately think a 55-60mph class for 220 pound people is a must. You have a hard nut to crack, there are alot of good ideas, and you can see how much they all differ, that has always been the problem, whats good for one area is not always good for another.

Good luck Kerry

[mercguy]

very doable!!!

If I had any say in how to combine classes or restructure Stock Outboard, this would be my proposal. Keep in mind there must be a plan in Stock Outboard for NOW and for the FUTURE.

J-OMC, new Sidewinder
A-OMC, new Sidewinder,
B-Yamato 80, new Sidewinder 20cu.in., Hot Rod 15cu.in.
C-Yamato 102/302, Merc 25SS, Hot Rod 20cu.in.
D-Merc 44, Tahotsu

ADD: you could even incorporate the old Merc.'s into the structure listed above.

There would have to be parity committees for all classes listed above but as they say "the fastest will survive" and those who do not want to invest in new equipment will still have a place to race. Not everyone cares to win the nationals, some just want to race and have fun and the plan above would allow for this. Tackle one category at a time then consider combining categories. One step at a time!!!

Now, if you do not like more than one motor per class, then elimination will have to occur, and it will not be pretty. Without the support of large manufacturers suppling large quantities of new motors and parts, this would almost be impossible. Not to mention that all new motor from large manufacturers will be either 4-stroke or E-Tech engines. Pick your poison!

I think the idea Joe has here is very good and on track with the future of SO Racing. This structure allows more options, even with more than one engine per class, which does add excitement on the race course.

[Lights]

J-OMC, new Sidewinder
A-OMC, new Sidewinder,
B-Yamato 80, new Sidewinder 20cu.in., Hot Rod 15cu.in.
C-Yamato 102/302, Merc 25SS, Hot Rod 20cu.in.
D-Merc 44, Tahotsu

I like your suggestion for classes Joe. It would make for a great three heat race day.

Mark

[MGallagher]

Joe,

You won't see one on my 25SSR next year, but you will on my CSR. See you at Lock Haven buddy!

[14-H]

***I STILL (and so do many others) think your appointment of Wheeler (again I say I have nothing bad to say about Mark) to the DSH paridy committee is ludicrous.............the AOF and NBRA look better each day....

Darren: Maybe you should run for SO Chairman. Then you can put all Pro-Tohatsu guys on the Parity Committee, just to make it fair.

BTW: I have been an AOF member for the past 4 years (I believe). What's your point?

[ryan_4z]

On the contrary, I think we need to concern are selves more with the future of SO, than the present. Doing what is good for the sport NOW will only prolong the death of it. Current boat racers need to make immediate and aggressive sacrifices in order to remedy this successfully. Now, I am not sure what and how the order of things should go(cutting classes and motors), but maybe that is what the commissioners should concentrating on while at the national meeting.

STOCK
J-Keep as is
AX-cut
A-OMC out in 1-2 years with commitment of 50-100 new 15ci motors from Racing Outboards LLC
B-Old Hot Rod out 1-2 years with commitment of 50-100 new 20ci motors from Racing Outboards LLC
20ssh-cut
25SSR & 25SSH-cut
C-102 out in 1-2 years ;302 only
D- Merc out 1-2 years :Tahatsu only(with adjustments for easier inspection)

MOD
FA- any 15ci engine
BM- any 20ci engine
25M- cut
CM- anything between 20ci to 30ci
DM- anything between 30ci to 44ci
FE- anything between 40ci to 49ci

Just a thought!

Response to this would be appreciated!

Matt Gallagher
58J

Kudos Matt! I think you hit the nail on the head here. As far as the Mod stuff, I really don't care what they do with their classes, no offense meant, but I am a stocker, and I am concerned with developing a successful structure for my category. What you have here Matt is pretty much perfect. It is a simple, JABCD, class structure. The only changes I would make would be to lengthen the phase out period for the older motors to 3 years. If everyone knew right now, that their 102s, OMCs, and Mercs would be out in 3 years, they could plan for that, and purchase the replacement motor. This would ensure sales for Sidewinder, Bass, and Montoya. All of these guys would be able to make money on their investments, and therefore be able to continue supplying us with new, available motors. I would also say that we shouldn't cut 20ssH yet, but let it die a natural death. The class is still strong, but we shouldn't do anything to lengthen it's lifespan. The motor is already 30 years old, when it goes it goes. The other huge thing that this structure does is it ensures parity, without entrusting that task to a committee, that may or may not know the best way to achieve it. I know we don't want to push guys away, but motors are going to come and go, and right now it appears that we are in that part of the cycle. If we make the right choices now, it will provide a strong base for us to have a sellable, marketable, sport. If we get this class structure thing worked out, and finite, then we can get new people into the sport. If we have 20 different motors in 5 classes, that is way to intimidating for someone who has no idea about any of it. On the other hand, if we can say, call Ric Montoya, or Sidewinder, or Bass Machines, depending on what class you are going to run, that makes it really simple for a new racer. Why is it that most new racers seem to be getting into C hydro? The answer is that the 302 is readily available, and competetive in the class. Now imagine if all of our classes were that easy to get equipment for. We need to make this sport one worth investing in. We need to be able to see the future of Stock Outboard now.

[Joe J]

J Committee

Since the J and AX classes are controlled at this time by the J Committee, it seems to me this needs to be addressed before changes are decided for the classes.

I am not saying that the J committee is a bad thing, only that everyone has plans on what to do to classes they have no control over.

Joe Johnson

[mercguy]

Darren: Maybe you should run for SO Chairman. Then you can put all Pro-Tohatsu guys on the Parity Committee, just to make it fair.

BTW: I have been an AOF member for the past 4 years (I believe). What's your point?

my flippin point is that AOF and NBRA do not put all these obsticles on a motor, they just want you to be able to race and have fun. And if you do not understand why I feel it is unappropriate to have Wheeler on the committee, then you are not as smart as I thought you were.........

[14-H]

my flippin point is that AOF and NBRA do not put all these obsticles on a motor, they just want you to be able to race and have fun. And if you do not understand why I feel it is unappropriate to have Wheeler on the committee, then you are not as smart as I thought you were.........

AOF and NBRA also do not have a D Stock class, genious. They put the Tohatsu in their Super E class which is like APBA's Formula E in Mod. In fact, I don't think they even put it in their version of our D Mod Class (they call it E Haiydro) but I could be wrong about that. Even if they did, the comparison is not the same. We are talking about this engine being in D Stock which has slower speeds than DMod or FE.

Darren: Have you ever heard that "in-fighting" is not constructive? I support the restrictions being lessened on the Tohatsu. But the process has to be fair. If you were chairing the committee, the 44 guys would still be boycotting the class. Have you thought about that?

BTW: just because you used to think I was smart, does not make it so!