Allow OMC restrictor in AX class to be resized ?

[racer ron]

if by chance the mercury proves to be too much faster because of its greater horsepower ,the J committee will adress the problem when it arises.We don't think that it will be a problem, but in case it is we will address it. Ernie Dawe may 2003 propeller How soon they forget.

[Karls Dad]

I can tell you all how I feel and that is we as a group need to fix the sport NOW not next year or the year after but for 2011. if it not simplified into less classes and more racing with ease of entry for new folks the sport is dead

Let's get to work with all of our American Ingenuity and have fun

Chris

[racemom26w]

What a wonderful idea to let the OMC die, think of all the racers we can drive away completely or directly to MOD. Everyone is aware that the OMC is old, but we can still go to any dealer around to get guaranteed parts in stock,Merc motor also.There doesn't seen to be a sidewinder dealer around WI. How do we expect kids just on their own, or the racers that have a serious adverse affect from the poor economy to afford almost $5000.00 for just a new motor. The sidewinder is a well needed motor just don't MAKE us think we need it rite away.

[Big Don]

Unplug the Merc’s????….I only have to laugh because isn’t this the same thing we dealt with 20 years ago with the OMC’s.

I’m not on the J committee but I can only assume the reason they allowed plugging the merc was the same reason they allowed it on the OMC… They will find a way to do it somewhere in the block and you won’t be able to catch them.

Unplugging the Merc’s will not fix the issue.

[csh12M]

Whats wrong with racing them in MOD

What is wrong with racing the OMC in MOD. It has been noted several times that every race in the country is a combined Stock Mod race. I believe only MHRA runs an all Stock format? So again I ask? What is wrong with these motors being transitioned into Mod.

BTW MHRA just hosted our 26 year of racing at Grass Lake, MI. Sanction and Insurance $2,500, ambulance $1,400, porta cans $400 I will quit right their and not even mention incidentals which are usually another $250-$400. Race expense $4,300-$4,800 for the weekend. Revenue 80 entries over two days at $27 dollars of which the club recognizes $25 = $4000. On a good weekend we lose $250-400. We were blown out one day, opps....$1,200 loss. So for all those that have thought we were strong, MHRA is in the same boat as everyone else. I feel, that the financial house of cards that has allowed us to get this far is about to crumble.

Our retention policies and rules that have supported the existing racers through the mid 90"s until now has slowly lost membership to the point of financial instability. If we can not influx "new name" blood into the sport soon (next year) soon. I don't see how we will continue.

[csh12M]

Btw

For everyone with the 2-3 OMC in your trailer that you have raced for 5-10 years (at least). Each one has a $1,000 gearcase hanging on it, thanks to the new gearcase market definition that Sidewinder created. Sell your gearcases to J parents at $850 a pop (a bargin) for the J parent. Ebay your two powerheads with towers for $500-700 a piece and you are close to your Sidewinder. BTW you will be more competitive with it and will only have to concentrate on props without scrounging scrap piles to find that perfect OMC. Oh and props, it is the same gearcase you used to race so all your A wheels are close.

How long is a $1,500 investment supposed to last....

[dholt]

How about this instead...race the OMC in 'A' Stock...where it is the dominant engine.

Why are 16,17, 18 year olds racing AXS?

Why are they not in ASR or ASH. You telling me they can't handle a 2 mph faster rig? (speed of AX compared to A Stock)

Many of us jumped from a 35 mph 60-J Merc hydro to a 57 mph ASH...and lived to tell about it.

Or put the teenagers in ASR and race at 53-54 mph. Shoot with side fins, it doesn't get any easier to drive than that.

[thepiranhabros]

For everyone with the 2-3 OMC in your trailer that you have raced for 5-10 years (at least). Each one has a $1,000 gearcase hanging on it, thanks to the new gearcase market definition that Sidewinder created. Sell your gearcases to J parents at $850 a pop (a bargin) for the J parent. Ebay your two powerheads with towers for $500-700 a piece and you and you are close to your Sidewinder. BTW you will be more competitive with it and will only have to concentrate on props without scrounging scrap piles to find that perfect OMC. Oh and props, it is the same gearcase you used to race so all your A wheels are close.

How long in a $1,500 investment supposed to last....

Meanwhile, those with one OMC in the trailer racing on a shoestring budget can just sit on the beach or quit and move on to something else altogether.

I fail to see how killing off a still-viable engine is going to help grow this sport. What we *may* gain in new membership (who wants and can afford a brand new race-ready rig) will be offset by what we lose in current membership who will get fed up with all this nonsense and walk away.

We are killing our own sport from the inside out. *Yep, son, we have met the enemy and he is us.* (Pogo)

Michael Mackey
21-V

[ricochet112]

Why do we have the AX classes?

When the Merc was introduced it was so slow it was a joke in A, people couldn't sell them fast enough. Now we created another class in APBA for the Merc to race in, shortly after that the J category sprung up (you want to talk about how much it costs to put on a race, now we have to fork out another $100 to the sanction fees to include another category (J) to put on a race...stupid). To not have parity with 2 motors in a class will do much damage to our sport. IMO the AX class needs to go away, APBA and it's racers did just fine without an AX class. Now the speeds are so close now between A & AX that it's just another 2 cylinder class that has 7 different places to run and is confusing to newbies and spectators (and a Junior class that has no age limit, illogical).

Until we get back to the basics and have J A B C D, (and yes I'm in favor for letting my beloved 25SSH class go away, reluctantly...) we will continue to have to race way too many classes to get enough entries fees to try to break even on a race.

Fewer classes will make more entries in each class, better for racers and spectators. To transition to this we may have to let multiple engines in classes so our number don't fall off suddenly, but this is one way to get back where APBA started. Again, IMO until we shorten the racing day and get rid of some classes, we will sing this same song to our grave.

To answer the OP, yes the restrictor should be opened up on the OMC for AX if the class is to be viable in the short term. This is one reason we no longer run AX because we weren't competitive in AX but we are in A with our OMC. Let me rephrase that, we could get a second or third with a good start, but the Mercs would usually pass most of the OMC's. Make the OMC restrictor 0.7115687944, easy on the inspectors

[csh12M]

Did you read the first post?

Michael, you ignore the first post. You did not race at a single event this year where you could not race your OMC. the only difference now will be you "answer with your boat number" for FAH instead of ASH? Is that such a bad thing? I am also not advocating that we drop the OMC from ASH of AXSH, but the Sidewinder has to be the future, because it is easy and simple for the new guy! We have to put selling to "new names" ahead of protecting the existing membership base. If you read earlier in the thread I advocate that we should enlarge the OMC resrictor in ASXH to help have a secondary market to sell lower cost equipment for kids.

Dont quote only one of my statements to make your point, while ignoring the rest.

Now explain Michael why this in not the correct direction. I am not trying to be confrontational, I am trying to understand the motivations of the racer.

Thanks,
Dean

[Dave M]

Exactly

Dave, I suggest you checks your facts. The Merc is still in production just not sold in the US as fishing motors.

If it is not produced in the U.S. it is out of production. They had to go through some hoops to get the 2 storke version here if memory serves..... It has something to do with the 2 stroke vs 4 stroke thing in the U.S. for manufacturing. Same kind of deal for the Tahotsu, it is imported for Racing Only. (2 Stroke Model).

I am afraid if all these 2 strokes are simply left to die, the imports will realize it is not worth the taxes and fees to get the motors here. It could really become cost prohibitive to race the kids class. I hope I am wrong, but it sure looks like it could happen that way. You already have a pretty big spread on cost bewtween the Merc and the OMC in J. I don't have the answers, just hate to see it happen if that path that is possible. Realisticly, how long will it be before the rest of the world will adopt the same rules regarding 2 stroke engine production ?

[bill boyes]

Why do we have the AX classes?

When the Merc was introduced it was so slow it was a joke in A, people couldn't sell them fast enough. Now we created another class in APBA for the Merc to race in, shortly after that the J category sprung up (you want to talk about how much it costs to put on a race, now we have to fork out another $100 to the sanction fees to include another category (J) to put on a race...stupid). To not have parity with 2 motors in a class will do much damage to our sport. IMO the AX class needs to go away, APBA and it's racers did just fine without an AX class. Now the speeds are so close now between A & AX that it's just another 2 cylinder class that has 7 different places to run and is confusing to newbies and spectators (and a Junior class that has no age limit, illogical).

Until we get back to the basics and have J A B C D, (and yes I'm in favor for letting my beloved 25SSH class go away, reluctantly...) we will continue to have to race way too many classes to get enough entries fees to try to break even on a race.

Fewer classes will make more entries in each class, better for racers and spectators. To transition to this we may have to let multiple engines in classes so our number don't fall off suddenly, but this is one way to get back where APBA started. Again, IMO until we shorten the racing day and get rid of some classes, we will sing this same song to our grave.

To answer the OP, yes the restrictor should be opened up on the OMC for AX if the class is to be viable in the short term. This is one reason we no longer run AX because we weren't competitive in AX but we are in A with our OMC. Let me rephrase that, we could get a second or third with a good start, but the Mercs would usually pass most of the OMC's. Make the OMC restrictor 0.7115687944, easy on the inspectors

Mike, you are not correct on your Sanction fee statement.

[csh12M]

ricochet 112

Right on richochet....but think about this.... if we did get down to less classes me may even be able to race all of them three times over two days in a reasonable amount of time. Now everyone gets 33% more boat time out of their rig! and entries should at least stay the same or even increase. Now when I am selling to the new guy at least he is getting 21 minutes of racing out of his rig instead of 14?

A lot of the answers are obvious and staring us in the face. It will just take a leader with the courage and conviction to try and make it happen. Oh wait, that cant happen because we govern ourselves....forgot that small detail.

[ricochet112]

Oops, thanks for the correction Bill, it's been 3 years since I filled out the paperwork and it has since been changed, it used to be another category fee.

Mike Bartlett 112R

BTW, we have already seen the writing on the wall with the OMC and have started playing with mods for FAH/FAR.

[thepiranhabros]

Michael, you ignore the first post. You did not race at a single event this year where you could not race your OMC. the only difference now will be you "answer with your boat number" for FAH instead of ASH? Is that such a bad thing? I am also not advocating that we drop the OMC from ASH of AXSH, but the Sidewinder has to be the future, because it is easy and simple for the new guy! We have to put selling to "new names" ahead of protecting the existing membership base. If you read earlier in the thread I advocate that we should enlarge the OMC resrictor in ASXH to help have a secondary market to sell lower cost equipment for kids.

Dont quote only one of my statements to make your point, while ignoring the rest.

Now explain Michael why this in not the correct direction. I am not trying to be confrontational, I am trying to understand the motivations of the racer.

Thanks,
Dean

Dean:

Yes, I did read the first post. A simple question quickly turned to discussion of eliminating the OMC from J and AX.

I appreciate and even support your position of enlarging the restrictors. However, you start to lose me at your second post which asks the question why it seems we are always targeting people who cannot afford to race. I'm gone by your fourth post which advocates a plan for selling multiple OMCs to pay for one Sidewinder.

I am not looking for a fight with you or anyone else about this topic either.

My motivation and argument is this: it is my opinion that our external growth will not exceed what we stand to lose by removing viable elements of it internally.

Michael