Allow OMC restrictor in AX class to be resized ?

[14-H]

There is no parity in AXS between the Merc and the OMC! This was not true just 2 years ago. Tomtall is absolutely correct: the Merc-powered A runabout of Peter Lauer was very impressive this weekend against the very fast ASR of Terry Kerr. I think the only reason Kerr won was due to the fact that he had a roll-up boat on a long course with tight turns and Lauer had a side-finner (aka "Sissy-boat").

The OMC needs to have a larger restrictor plate. But it still needs a restrictor plate in AXS!!! We don't want engines that have been out of production for 15 years winning in the AXS class.

AXS should eventually be combined with A Stock and Formula A! You can always run an A Novice race if your club wants to do that. Whether that's at the national level or the local level, is debatable.

[Norm Schaub]

Just something to ponder. If you don't want the 15 year old OMCs to be able to win, where will OMC owners be able to market all the good motors that are out there?
And what about the old Hot Rods vs the Sidewinders? Does your same idea apply here?

[csh12M]

Tom Tall

NO parity at all, open up the restrictor on the OMC.

Case in point: Big Rapids last weekend.

The winning ASH rig, and it was a legit win (first on the course) put the AXSH restrictor in of AXSH. The rig got destroyed by the MERCS. Started third and finished last. It was the only OMC and finished last every heat.

BTW. The rig was purchased by a Racer School graduate family the week! Welcome the Licious family to racing. The "hope" expectation was that Steve 15 year old boy, would race it in ASH, and Grace 16 year old girl would race it in AXSH. We set the expectation at Racer School that this $3,200 investment would be a great way for both kids to get started at low cost and that the rig should be Mid pack competitive in both classes. In ASH it was top notch, but in AXSH it left Grace wondering what next year would be like for her. By no means do I think that the OMC should be able to beat the best MERC. The MERC should be motor of choice. However, the OMC should be able to finish Mid pack, and from what I saw it doesn't have a shot.

[Matt Dagostino]

Parity.....................

Do as you want in AXS but don't blow smoke up my A** saying their is parity in AXS class between the Merc. and OMC. Their is not and that is provin weekend after weekend acroos the country in this class.

The J Committee allowing the Merc to run officially plugged has really hurt the OMC stay in the hunt. While the OMC should never get to be the motor of choice in the J Class division (J and AX), a little boost certainly seems in order to keep it interesting and affordable for people! Hopefully the J Committee will re-visit the plugging issue in Detroit!

[bill boyes]

I agree Increasing the restrictor size in the OMC should be on the J committee agenda. Data will help us reach a decision. We do not what to shoot from the hip so to speak. Plugging the Merc decision was based on the "Genie being out of the bottle"

I am all in favor of Deans plans. Also I would like to point out that the clubs need to lower costs of an event. Sanction and Insurance are pretty much locked in. However, A long program needs to address Ambulance Fees and
Volunteer burnout.

[Howie Nichols]

So it sounds like the OMC needs a larger restrictor plate, what size????

Whose motor (OMC & Merc) do we do testing with to determine the correct restrictor size?

What design of boat do we use for these tests both Hydro & Runabout?

If its going to be done (and I don't disagree necessarily, I have asked for this on the J agenda myself in the past), then lets do it right and make it fair for all.

Disclaimer: I am not a member of the J Committee and was not in Seattle. President Weber replaced alot of members and since I had an "interest" in the class I was removed from the committee. I did serve as a NON voting secretary for Chairman Tennell.

[bill boyes]

Good questions Howie.

[Big Don]

The problem is... just because you restrict a good OMC and put a restrictor in it for J or AX or good Mercury and restrict it for J that does not mean it’s going to be a good J engine.

Been that way since we started running restricted engines in these 2 classes.

We took Ed Hearn National Championship FLAT TURNING ASR (sorry Ed you did use to race them) and put a restrictor in it at the last Bakersfield and it ran last in J.

You can look up and down the pits every weekend and it happens.

I’m not saying the Mercury’s don’t have the advantage over the OMC, I just don’t know how you would ever get data that is useful with that wildcard.

[bill boyes]

Good point. So if the J committee makes a decision it will most likely be a guess. Right?

[Matt Dagostino]

Re-set the clock!

The problem is... just because you restrict a good OMC and put a restrictor in it for J or AX or good Mercury and restrict it for J that does not mean it’s going to be a good J engine.
I’m not saying the Mercury’s don’t have the advantage over the OMC, I just don’t know how you would ever get data that is useful with that wildcard.

Un-plugging the Merc basically puts the OMC and Merc back where they have been the past few years in terms of 'parity'. As Howie points out it is a nightmare to dial in restrictor plates and do all that testing. By unplugging the Merc you knock 400rpm and almost 2mph off it in J Hydro and in AXSH it will drop about 1mph and a few RPM (Team Stillwill Testing)........ nobody can argue that PLUGGING the Merc did not speed it up!! Case closed!!

Bill Boyes is right. The J Committee basically allowed the 'Genie out of the bottle scenario' to be recognized in lieu of taking the 'other path' of writing language to make sure guys and gals don't resrtict the water path to the tuned pipe.

FYI............some Merc's are getting so hot plugged that they are actually now melting the motor mounts. Food for thought J Committee!

[Shep]

enough

After reading most of these post for the last two hours no one has offered to see if the argument holds water or how much water does it hold.

I have a boat, driver, stop watch radar gun, gps, tach merc, and an omc ( need ax and J restrictor for omc). We are available October 2 or the 16 for testing at pell lake Wisconsin weather permitting.

Both motors are very good winning motors.

All we need is help. All of you are welcome to see. I won't do it with out help from others.

Kris Shepard

[csh12M]

Agree Don but...

Don,

I agree with all your point, and was there at Bakersfield and saw that with my own eyes. However, the rig was still "in the hunt" if you will. It was not what you thought it would be but it was still competitive. What we watched this weekend was a ASH rig that can beat 80% of them out their switch to an AXSH and could not beat anyone. The rig went straight to the back, it sounds like most people are seeing feeling the same thing. Maybe that is a good thing. Our rookie family left feeling that they needed to buy a Merc for Grace. However, cost just went from $4,000 for the family to start $3,200 for the rig and $800 for the gear to $7,000...and that is if we figure out some way to run a Merc and OMC on the same boat, otherwise run it up to $8,500.

Our Racer School has been a fun experience for me. I sell for a living so I have some concept of how to do it. Working with these new names is eye opening, our value proposition is strong, family, friends and competition. I even think our cost can be spun as very reasonable family fun. However, trying to explain class structure and recommend classes for them is crazy. Every veteran boat racer should try and explain and recommend to a family what class they should start in. It is much much harder than you think.

[17W]

After reading most of these post for the last two hours no one has offered to see if the argument holds water or how much water does it hold.

I have a boat, driver, stop watch radar gun, gps, tach merc, and an omc ( need ax and J restrictor for omc). We are available October 2 or the 16 for testing at pell lake Wisconsin weather permitting.

Both motors are very good winning motors.

All we need is help. All of you are welcome to see. I won't do it with out help from others.

Kris Shepard

I'm in!

[Big Don]

Shep, the problem is this…Let’s say for the sake of this post you are able to take your OMC and put a restrictor in it and it runs let’s say 39MPH as a J.

Take our OMC (which is pretty good) put in a restrictor and it will only go 32. Put and AX restrictor in it and it only goes 46.

Take Scheffler’s Mercury put a restrictor in it and it only goes 33, pull it and he’s got a pretty fast AX…

There is such a huge disparity in the OMC & Mercury engines when you restrict them it’s crazy.

Great offer BTW so don’t take this wrong, I know you will do anything for anyone and are trying to help, This is the kind of data that is useful when making changes.

[csh12M]

Shep, Great!!

Shep, that is awesome that is exactly what is needed!!! It is a little far for me to help, but I will send Adam with a case of your favorite beer to the next OPC race for the effort and the data