Allow OMC restrictor in AX class to be resized ?

[ian]

[QUOTE=Dave M;165524]One thing about boat racers, is there is very little middle ground. You have the folks who can and will spend the 10K and over for a couple Novice class rigs to be used a few years. Then you have those that can't and won't and really want race. You need to stop and think about your core racers and market it to them. The rest will follow.

This is my concern. The middle group that remains largely silent. Not being able to travel to national meetings, and a racing budget that is definitely finite. These are the people who simply wont be in the pits one spring. Braces, or two miles an hour?

[NUT2F]

Let the OMCs die. They are already dying a slow death from the Sidewinder in the A class (I just read the Left Coast Sidewinder update from Moses Lake as further evidence). The Merc motor is still in production. It should be the motor for the J and AX.

This is the type of answer that has us were we are TODAY. We do need new motors, but I agree with Ian the parity commitee needs to do a better job of finding a level playing field. Killing the OMC's or Yamatos is the quickest way to pull the plug on a dying sport! In this economy, we should do all we can to keep ALL RACERS welcome and competative, even with there dying fishing motors.

[Norm Schaub]

I think making the OMC equal in speed to the Merc would be a way to give the OMCs a place to be run in AXS and J when the Sidewinder becomes the motor of choice for A.

This would be a less expensive way to get new people into those classes, while also giving OMC owners a place to sell these motors and maybe grow our sport.

[brian]

I say we just use two start times. OMC's start with 5 seconds left and mercs start at 0. No height adjustment.

If a merc can run in the "A" class and an omc can run in the AXS class you pick when you want to win. An omc wins the A class and a Merc wins AXS. They are two classes that go the same speed. AXS is not intended to be an experienced driver class. We should limit the years you can race AXS we kick you out of the J class when you get too old or to big....LOL

[17W]

Do the WORK!

Just a poll for people racing in the AX classes.

Do you feel that the OMC restrictor used in the AX classes should be re-sized larger to have better parity within that class between the Mercury's and the OMC's ?

1. No leave the restrictor as is.

2. Yes - Allow a larger restrictor opening for parity in the class.

Obtain some restrictors & have the opening enlarged.

Have the data presented at the national meeting to justify the change.
Current Plate- RPM & Speed
Revised Plates- RPM & Speed

[csh12M]

Norm Shaub

Great idea Norm, I agree completely and think it is the best "simple" answer. Unfortunately experience tells me that it probably will not even be looked at as a solution because it make to much sense

[ajennings4p]

slowing the omcs down to accodimate the mercurys and this is what happened.

if you all remember back some time ago in 2004-2005 they changed the restrictor plate from .700 to .650 soo the research is their already. they changed this to accomidate the mercury, the brand new mercury which was slower than the omc at the time. they slowed down the class to accomidate for a newer slower motor. now if they were to leave the plates at .700 where would we be at right now, would they be very competitave with each other?? who knows, why didnt any of the people with the new motors do their homework like every owner with a omc who was fast and see what can be done to become faster?? but no they just said why not slow down the omc's thats an easier solution to the problem. but now you have people with omc's saying why cant they make the class more competitave. because the mercurys are now faster. i understand fully the whole thing about new motors vs old motors. i believe i still have 1 or 2 of the .700 if anyone wants to do some more research with the plates and give them data for this year at the national meeting. which could be looked up from previous history..

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

Lock Haven

Take a look around the pits this summer. What is obvious is a lack of entries. What ever is done in Detroit this winter has to be directed to make this a friendlier sport to race in. In other words, we have got to stop ticking people off and retain them especially during tough economic times like these.
At Lock Haven I worked on the judges stand during JSH on Sunday. The first six boats were Mercury's and the last six boats were OMC's. That is pretty sad.
Of course, those that say let the OMC's die have a couple Merc's in their trailer already. But, what about the father's that cannot afford it and are stuggling to get their kids on the water? We have to have cheap place for them to race or we lose them!
I am lucky enough to have both engines in my garage in case my daughter decides to put down the Nintendo and race. When she does, I hope both engines are competitive with each other and she has plenty of kids to race with. We need to be quicker with our rule changes if we are going to have parity in a class to keep kids from quitting because they are getting beat by the rule makers.

[Big Don]

Let the fun begin…

Should be an interesting fall/winter leading up to Detroit.

There is talk of slowing the Sidewinder down already in the pits. And then we hear that out West it’s faster than our 4 time national champions 2 A rigs. Rumor has is it’s going to break all the A records in Yelm and it’s only been legal for what, 6 weeks? Should we call an emergency parity committee meeting and slow them down now?

[Howie Nichols]

OMC vs Merc

Ok, lets say we open up the restrictor to make the motors equal. Whose motors do we compare to gain this so called equality?? We all know there are good motors, average motors, and bad motors out there. I have seen it with the Merc's as well. So again I ask whose engine is used to create this parity? Do we use the best of the best for OMC data or do we find the average guy's and make that equal, then the good OMC would be brought out by someone and be another 1-2 faster. Not sure what the best answer is myself......

This was on last years J committee agenda and it has been every year with no solution / resolution, so they do look at things they dont just sweep it under the rug.

[17W]

[QUOTE=NUT2F;165537]This is the type of answer that has us were we are TODAY.

Peanut-

It is up to the current "J Parents" who run OMCs to get the playing field leveled! I have talked to Buddy about this, do the homework & present the data in both AXS & J.

[Matt Dagostino]

Multiple class engines.............

Let the fun begin…

Should be an interesting fall/winter leading up to Detroit.

There is talk of slowing the Sidewinder down already in the pits. And then we hear that out West it’s faster than our 4 time national champions 2 A rigs. Rumor has is it’s going to break all the A records in Yelm and it’s only been legal for what, 6 weeks? Should we call an emergency parity committee meeting and slow them down now?

We have basically been a sport that has thrived on 'one motor one class' throughtout our history and now we are forced to deal with these issues!!

The excellent arguments listed above in all these posts is exactly why i argued against the Sidewinder in 20ssh class! Trying to establish 'parity' is a nightmare!

The J Classes (specifically the AX classes) have been the one bright spot in APBA growth over the last several years. The reason for this is the introduction and success of the Merc 15. Being able to buy a used one as R. Hearn points out and update it or stroking a check to APBA for a NEW one has given drivers several options. Also having the OMC remain in the class has kept numbers growing! I believe all our classes need to have a 'motor of choice'................i would encourge the j Committee to maintain the NEW available Merc as the dominate motor but i do support a little 'boost' for the OMC to stay close. The poor decision (my opinion only) by the j committee to allow the Merc to run PLUGGED has really opened up the gap between the OMC and the Merc. Our camp believes the long term effects on the Merc engines due to the decision to run the Merc's 'plugged' is not in anyone's interest except the inspectors who don't have to worry about checking for cheating like what happened in the OMC plugging decision years ago.

Brent B. is correct in his comment about doing restrictor plate testing and presenting the info to the J Class committee............but that being said, i was at last years meeting and there was little data presented to support the lowering of the height from 1'3/8 to 1"3/4........myself, Sweeney, Allen, Howie etc etc were giving opinions but that was basically all the 'data' that was really on the table. We all have good intentions but often times the hard testing data never makes it to print!

If you OMC guys want the OMC to be perked up a little in J Class you should get to Jesup, Ga for the year end gala event(per Bob Dunlap) this October and come do some restrictor plate testing in front of Buddy Tennell (The J Chairman) and plead you case!! Several J Class Committee members will be there also!!!

[fhafer]

A Current J Parent

I am a current J parent. My son runs a Mariner; it's essentially a Mercury. He gets beat all the time by better drivers piloting OMC powered hydros. His boat is fast, so is his motor.....but he is not because he's not as good a driver. We still have fun. It's what happens in the pits that makes it so much fun for us, not necessarily what happens on the water. People like JT Breid, Paul Price, L.E. Outlaw, and Gary Pond make this fun for us. Don't lose sight of what makes this HOBBY fun for a lot of folks......for some it isn't all about winning, it's about having fun. Just saying.

[Richard Hearn]

When are we going to stop marketing to the existing members and start marketing to new ones? If we continue to enable the difficult to get motors the winning motors (read: OMCs and Hot Rods) -- because existing members have them in their trailers, the new folks see the difficulty of competing and go into other racing sports. The fact that there are almost 10,000 active quarter midget participants (age 6 - 16) and only about 100 active J participants is real (same target age and demographics). Consider it...

[Matt Dagostino]

Banter.....................

I am a current J parent. My son runs a Mariner; it's essentially a Mercury. He gets beat all the time by better drivers piloting OMC powered hydros. His boat is fast, so is his motor.....but he is not because he's not as good a driver. We still have fun. It's what happens in the pits that makes it so much fun for us, not necessarily what happens on the water. People like JT Breid, Paul Price, L.E. Outlaw, and Gary Pond make this fun for us. Don't lose sight of what makes this HOBBY fun for a lot of folks......for some it isn't all about winning, it's about having fun. Just saying.

Fred
Hydroracer provides a forum for a lot of the folks to throw out ideas and banter back and forth............while the object is to have fun at the races, housekeeping rules have to be wisely put in place and administered to preserve the sport. We all have good points and intentions, it is up to the leaders to sift through all the issues and come to reasonable conclusions and rule implementation.

See ya at Clarksville.............

Matt