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Allow OMC restrictor in AX class to be resized ?

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  • #31
    In my opinion and a lot of others, getting new members and increase participation is our number one issue. Does new equipment fix that? Tim will tell. But don’t compare what happened in 1980 with the OMC with today. What worked 30 years ago most likely won’t work today in our sport.

    I mentioned this in a previous post, I’m tired of watching 4 boat races. I’m tired of having to call around to see if there are going to be enough people for our classes at the next race. So, we have to do something or we won’t be racing the way we do today. Which is maybe ok with some of you.

    We can’t agree as a group if a strong local schedule is important. We talk new prospective racers and they look at you as if you are nuts when you say, we’ll you might have to travel 6 – 8 hours if you want to race more than 4/5 weekends. Then when we mention it to our groups at our meetings and they don’t want to believe it.

    Have a strong local schedule and you can’t get more than 60 entries to show up.

    I don’t have the answer but we have to figure out what it is we want and how are we going to get there. Ask 10 people what the answer is and you will get 10 different opinions. I don’t know how we fix it.

    I’m just being honest and I know I will take some heat for it but let just say the sidewinder is as dominant in the A class as some are saying. We do nothing to slow them down and we loose 5 racers because of it because they can’t compete with their OMC. We want to sell engines so we have to make the new engine the engine of choice. How long can a club survive if they only have 50 entries at a race? We all know that getting new members is a struggle. Think of all the drivers’ schools we conducted over the entire country this year. We probably had over 100 people try us out. If we can get 10 of those we will be doing well. 10 over the entire county? Won’t make an impact on our races short term. How do you keep them enthused if they show up and there are 4 other boats to race and they just dropped 10,000.00. Oh wait I forgot they got 7 minutes of water time on Saturday and 7 on Sunday.

    Richard how much seat time for one of those midgets a weekend? That’s not a slam or a threat of, I’m leaving. It’s a legit question. I’m guessing more than 7 minutes a day? Same thing you hear when talking to people at races about our sport, I race karts and it’s way more expensive than that $5000.00 yamato rig you just pitched to them. And they say we get a lot more track time and it’s 1.5 hours away. I’m home early enough on cut my lawn Sunday night…Or the personal water craft they ride for hours…

    Bottom line until we lock ourselves in a room and come up with a plan that we all buy into we are fight a loosing battle. (BTW I don’t think we will ever all agree) Think of this as a business, if you had a problem at work you would meet until it was solved it would not go on for years like this has. How much time is spent working on this issue/opportunity? I know it’s a hobby but unless we give our time to fixing it, it will be gone.

    Talk about an issue at any boat racing meeting. How long before someone says let’s move on and nothing is resolved?
    "Ask anyone, I have no friends. I do have some people that put up with me and mostly because they like the rest of my family"

    Don Allen

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    • #32
      Quarter Midget racing compared to Boat racing

      [QUOTE]Richard how much seat time for one of those midgets a weekend? That’s not a slam or a threat of, I’m leaving. It’s a legit question. I’m guessing more than 7 minutes a day? Same thing you hear when talking to people at races about our sport, I race karts and it’s way more expensive than that $5000.00 yamato rig you just pitched to them. And they say we get a lot more track time and it’s 1.5 hours away. I’m home early enough on cut my lawn Sunday night…Or the personal water craft they ride for hours…/QUOTE]


      We were running quarter midgets before i was old enough to race J and you are sitting in a dirt pit from sun rise to sun set and if you are lucky enough to qualify you might get two heats of cart time with a 10 lap qualifier and about 4 hours later a 20 lap final on a 1/20th of a mile track. Not much cart time at all. And not to mention how much it cost every weekend just to race not even counting all the damage to the car. Just comparing the two.
      Last edited by racer3j; 09-14-2010, 04:41 PM.
      Dylan Runne

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      • #33
        Why does the OMC have to die? Why does the OMC have to stay over half a lap behind the Mercs? Amy has a Merc and Joey has an OMC. They will run against each other next season in AX until Joe gets sick of her beating him and switches to Go-Karts. I can't afford another Merc right now if we want to keep traveling.(not much racing in Florida) We will probably lose Joey to Karting.

        If I buy another Merc we will not be able to travel out of our region to race. If I keep Joe in an OMC we can afford to travel out of our region so Joe can race in last place. Opening the restrictor might keep Joe and several others interested in staying with boat racing.

        Joe is already talking seriously about selling his boat racing stuff and running Karts full time.

        It appears that current rules and politics are doing a better job of killing boat racing than the tree huggers and environmental watch dogs. "Friendly Fire" is not always friendly.
        _____________________________________________
        Russ Waterson
        PROUD PARENT OF A UNITED STATES SOLDIER!!

        sigpic
        SIBLING RIVALRY RACING TEAM

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        • #34
          Originally posted by aojesus View Post
          Why does the OMC have to die? Why does the OMC have to stay over half a lap behind the Mercs? Amy has a Merc and Joey has an OMC. They will run against each other next season in AX until Joe gets sick of her beating him and switches to Go-Karts. I can't afford another Merc right now if we want to keep traveling.(not much racing in Florida) We will probably lose Joey to Karting.

          If I buy another Merc we will not be able to travel out of our region to race. If I keep Joe in an OMC we can afford to travel out of our region so Joe can race in last place. Opening the restrictor might keep Joe and several others interested in staying with boat racing.

          Joe is already talking seriously about selling his boat racing stuff and running Karts full time.

          It appears that current rules and politics are doing a better job of killing boat racing than the tree huggers and environmental watch dogs. "Friendly Fire" is not always friendly.
          Well said, Russ. My pockets aren't deep enough for a Mercury or a Sidewinder either. And that's not a knock on those engines; it's just the plain truth. If our goal is to bring in new people to this sport, why the push to kill off a perfectly viable engine choice that is still reasonably affordable? Sounds counterintuitive to me.

          Michael Mackey - J-Dad
          21-V
          Michael J. Mackey
          Lola Boatwerks Factory Foreman
          Pavlick Race Boats Factory Driver
          Yamato Aficionado
          21-V

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          • #35
            Originally posted by aojesus View Post
            Why does the OMC have to die? Why does the OMC have to stay over half a lap behind the Mercs? Amy has a Merc and Joey has an OMC. They will run against each other next season in AX until Joe gets sick of her beating him and switches to Go-Karts. I can't afford another Merc right now if we want to keep traveling.(not much racing in Florida) We will probably lose Joey to Karting.

            If I buy another Merc we will not be able to travel out of our region to race. If I keep Joe in an OMC we can afford to travel out of our region so Joe can race in last place. Opening the restrictor might keep Joe and several others interested in staying with boat racing.

            Joe is already talking seriously about selling his boat racing stuff and running Karts full time.

            It appears that current rules and politics are doing a better job of killing boat racing than the tree huggers and environmental watch dogs. "Friendly Fire" is not always friendly.
            My point exactly.
            Ian Augustine

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            • #36
              seriously???

              hmmmm-- well someone better tell zach hegeman in region 10 to slow down his omc axs if this is the case!!! zach is a top runner in axsh running an omc. He has a strong motor and good prop and runs right with ashley(running a merc). Yes you have to have a strong motor and great set up. Daniel Korpe ran our boat and omc in axsh-- he finished behind two mercs and ahead of four others. I dont see the issue in axs at least not in region 10. Yes the racers with not up to snuff omcs are behind but with strong motors-not the case. As Howie said-"how you and who are you going to compare to when determining parity"?. So if you increase the restrictor size-we going to put the omcs (the obsolete motor) out front of the current production motor??

              I think there is a parity problem between the omc and merc in the jh/jr classes not ax--


              SIDEWINDER--ok boys and girls here are the facts with the A sidewinder in region 10. we have NOT run it in A hydro-- we have had the motor at two races only and have NEVER tested it beforehand and amazingly gained speed after it being legal -----so whaap!!. we ran ASR on sun aug 29th-- didnt get off the beach the 1st heat and ran in middle of the pack the 2nd heat. We ran the motor at moses lake (asr only!!)- didnt get out first heat and ran second heat and won--yes against JMK. Ran on sunday both heats (we made it finally)!!! and won both heats--and no JMK did NOT run asr sunday. we had tweaked the carb between the two races-- still figuring out how to start the thing--but thats the scoop----- and yes i have the sidewinder in my camp so this is not just observation but hands on info.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Susan Rautenberg View Post
                So if you increase the restrictor size-we going to put the omcs (the obsolete motor) out front of the current production motor??
                I guess you are right. It is simpler and cheaper to just obsolete the racers instead.

                I hear a bunch of talk about member retention but we seem to keep heading toward member obsoleting. You will lose more members than you gain, that makes perfect sense.

                It was fine to adjust things when the Mercs were getting pounded by the OMC's but now that the tables are turned how quickly we forget.

                I know a hot OMC will run with the Mercs. We did it last weekend but it is a rarity and a borrowed motor.
                _____________________________________________
                Russ Waterson
                PROUD PARENT OF A UNITED STATES SOLDIER!!

                sigpic
                SIBLING RIVALRY RACING TEAM

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                • #38
                  AXS OMC Owners try this (It works) Keep going up until you get asked to show up for inspection. Then post the size of the new hole.

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                  • #39
                    Question

                    Why does it always seem we are targeting the people who cant afford to race? Why don't we target those that can? I know I will take some heat for that, but really.... I sell software for a living, it is expensive. It could/would have huge benefit for small businesses. However, I choose to sell to Fortune 500, why...because they can afford it. I am not trying to sound elitist....but jeez if 10,000 people can afford $8-10k karts cant 500 people afford an $8k rig? If that premise is correct you then have to ask yourself why don't they? This is opinion, but I believe the people that have that kind of disposable income do not have the disposable time to race this sport competitively. We have to make it easier to buy the equipment. It has to be crazy easy, the rig needs to be completed and ready to go, just add your numbers. It also has to be competitive. You need to be able to go out and beat 75 percent of the people.

                    I don't know either....just some rambling thoughts. MHRA just ran a racer school for 11 new name drivers. Try explaining to them what class they should start in....we sounded like idiots trying to explain.
                    Last edited by csh12M; 09-15-2010, 06:37 AM.



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                    • #40
                      not just AX...........

                      but there is a bigger problem in J class........the Mercs clearly smoke the OMC's..............

                      solution.............unplug the Merc ...............

                      PS: after watching and helping all year long another couple teammates (Daniel in AX and Ryan in J), it was decided that if we want to be competitive in AX and J...............gotta get a Merc and I have gone that route............

                      PS: seems that if we want the J class to be a "learning class", maybe only one motor should be allowed, be it the Merc or OMC........
                      Last edited by mercguy; 09-14-2010, 06:50 PM.
                      Daren

                      ​DSH/750ccmh/850ccmh

                      Team Darneille


                      sigpic

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                      • #41
                        Just sayin' . . .

                        I think the J committee should adjust restrictor plate sizes to make ALL J engines fairly speed equal on the race course: Merc, OMC, and Sidewinder. Also adjust height if necessary to ensure easy planing.
                        carpetbagger

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                        • #42
                          Trickle Down Racing Economics...?

                          Originally posted by CSH12M View Post
                          Why does it always seem we are targeting the people who cant afford to race? Why don't we target those that can? ... It has to be crazy easy, the rig needs to be completed and ready to go, just add your numbers. It also has to be competitive. You need to be able to go out and beat 75 percent of the people
                          A novel idea, Dean... Start marketing to / targeting folks that can afford to race. There are TONS of them (see Quarter Midget numbers). As long as we keep marketing to our shrinking existing members, we will continue to shrink...
                          • Make standard boats
                          • Make standard motors
                          • Make them all competitive
                          • Let them play with Props ONLY
                          • Make the total package ~$8k


                          Only have 5 classes (BTW, 60 entries makes a full field for each class if there are only 5 classes). J,A,B,C,D

                          Allow each class to race a minimum of 6 times per DAY (that is only 30 heats). That is a 5 hr schedule which leaves time to get home before midnight on Sunday. Run qualifying heats, feature heats, consolation heats and finale heats. The open wheel circuit has this down pat. It works.

                          You will get more interest from the folks that can afford to race. Those folks will buy equipment, every year. They will sell their old equipment at rock bottom prices, which creates more opportunity for others to snatch it up at low prices.

                          Trickle down racing economics...

                          Now, back to reality... Sorry, I had an anchor man moment ("I blacked out, how did I do?").

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                          • #43
                            And here is some proof that the trickle down model works... Some of you might even remember Brad Hopper from your old 15SSH days... Here is his Facebook post today. I made my pitch to him to go boat racing... He's buying all new Kart equipment after just 8 races... We need these types of folks boat racing. Want to know why he races Karts vs. Boats? Call him. He made it easy for you to do the research by giving his number... I spoke to him at Dayton (one of my reasons to be on my soap box on this topic).

                            Brad Hopper: Motors clutches and pipes all sold! Kart still for sale!
                            Doug Brown: i bid $50.00
                            Richard Hearn: are you going boat racing?
                            Terry Reisner: done with karting or time to renew
                            Brad Hopper: Renew
                            Terry Reisner: what are your plans for the future-- motor- chassis-tires-etc
                            Brad Hopper: All Buller!
                            Terry Reisner: cant go wrong there- ive got some of mine up for sale and going buller and killam
                            Brad Hopper: I'm a dealer for the new Buller Aero. Nicks has 8 races on it. Won 7. I need to make room for the new 2011s coming. Will make someone a nice kart at a super price! Call if interested. 513 967 2399

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Richard Hearn View Post
                              Only have 5 classes (BTW, 60 entries makes a full field for each class if there are only 5 classes). J,A,B,C,D

                              Allow each class to race a minimum of 6 times per DAY (that is only 30 heats). That is a 5 hr schedule which leaves time to get home before midnight on Sunday. Run qualifying heats, feature heats, consolation heats and finale heats. The open wheel circuit has this down pat. It works.
                              This is what I was talking to my son Silas about yesterday. Somehow have less classes and 2 races per class per day.
                              Chris Jordan

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                              • #45
                                [QUOTE=mercguy;165612]but there is a bigger problem in J class........the Mercs clearly smoke the OMC's..............

                                solution.............unplug the Merc ...............

                                I too can only echo these statements!
                                17W

                                "You gotta do the work"- Pop Trolian

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