Allow OMC restrictor in AX class to be resized ?

[Big Don]

Dean sorry but I have to disagree. In the Hunt? You and I must have a different opinion of in the hunt then… He ran last both heats.

[csh12M]

Big Don

Big Don,

You are making it harder than it is...

Shep is right on. Just put the bigger restictor in the OMC and see what it picks up vrs. the smaller one. Then run the Merc in the same test session and see what it goes. The whole session will only take an hour and a half. Everyone is pretty sure you can open up the OMC without killing the MERC, we just need a good test session to be sure.

OR

As Matt suggested unplug the MERC. However, it seems we never go it that direction with the rules. BUT just in case this is the one time we do....unplug the MERC on your last runs and see what the delta is.

That is all they should need.

[csh12M]

Big Don Foggy Memory

Foggy Memory....really he ran last both heats? I remembered everything about that except the last part When you got the motor I thought we would be the favorite.

[D_Allen_III]

Don,

Our rookie family left feeling that they needed to buy a Merc for Grace. However, cost just went from $4,000 for the family to start $3,200 for the rig and $800 for the gear to $7,000...and that is if we figure out some way to run a Merc and OMC on the same boat, otherwise run it up to $8,500.

Isn't an $8,000 complete rig buyer our new demographic? I thought I've read a few times from people, if you can't spend $8,000 on a new rig you probably shouldn't be racing?

Not trying to be a jerk, because I completely disagree with the fact that you should have to spend that much money but I really have read about 10 different people in the past week say that.

[csh12M]

D Allen 3

Great point I have absolutely been saying we need to market to those that can afford it. This family can afford it. We have had cost discussions a few times and they know that for all three to race they will probably spend 15K over the next 3-5 years putting their program together. The hesitation comes from not being sure the kids are REALLY going to like it. This is a straight new name family. They went through racer school $150 bucks 20 minutes a piece on the water, and now they raced one weekend. The kids are saying yes, but the dad is saying "are you sure". They are getting to the sport to spend family time. $4k investment, betting that the kids will like it was pretty reasonable, $8k makes them think about it a little longer. First rule of selling ABC! always be closing...the longer they consider and the more time that passes before they invest the quicker the weekend of run fades from their mind. They go from active buyers to passive buyers.... your chances of success fade. You and I both know they will buy that one rig and two or three weekends later buy another and another and another. Shoot how many boats and motors do you own?

[Tomtall]

Axs

I tell you what. I will offer my services (even thou our son no longer runs in AXS class) to do a comparison test. The Shepard camp can do the test in Wisconson in October and get their data. I will do testing here in Michigan, if the person in my area is willing to do it with me, to do data gathering also.

Here is my idea of how the comparison sholuld be done.

Two strong running motors of each make.(I know sounds stupid but I have two motors in mind) One is a past high point winning Merc. and the other a 54mph AXSH OMC motor I still have in our camp.

Same boat for test ----- Same driver for test

Same gearfoot used on both motors. (I have seen 2 MPH with different foots)

Same fuel ------- Same weight

Run both engines and obtain the following.

Straightaway speed and tach reading ----- GPS and radar gun

Lap speeds ---- averaged with stop watch times.

Accelorometer readings out of corners. (optional)

Run OMC with current restrictor. Increase restrictor size till numbers start to match up between both motors. OR unplug or lower the Merc. and see what happens to the Merc. speeds and numbers.

Then compare the two state test numbers. (Shepard/Low) Subit this data to be reviewed by the "J" committee. Let them make a chioce on what to do.

My own feelings are this. (and I take no offence to your bashing my thoughts). The Mercury is too fast for AXS classes.

Our family started Adam in "J" classes at the inception of the Mercury engine. He raced OMC his entire stint in the "J" classes. Two reasons. I was an OMC tech for 36 years and the package was affordable. Adam did well.We had fun.We didn't chase points but he was usally in the hunt (when he didn't jump his starts,still doing that today). Then the blue printing game started to be played out with this new Mercury engine. The "ANY Mercury ring can be used rule". The pluging of the water to run dry exhaust. At the tail end run of his AXS class the Mercurys became THE engine to have if you wanted to be up front. I spoke with many parents in the pits and the majority said they were going to bite the bullet and go Merc..

Oh but wait. We not only have to buy a new Mercury from APBA at the cost of $3,500 we have to send it to one of the countries engine gurus to make it even fast to be up front. Oh and as long as we are at it we better get that purpose built boat JUST for the AXS class because our "J" hydro is to small and our uncles "A" hydro is to big and oh sh** their goes our Christmas this year because we just spent $8000 so little Johnny can be high point winner next year and get a patch and a shinny trophy and don't forget the travel expences of making those 15 races to get those high points, oh well I guess grandma doesn't need her meds that badly.

Whew ----- what a fun time this boat racing is -------- Right?

OK - I am done.(thank God Tom). We have some very good people in place to make rash descissons for the future of this sport. I truely believe this. I know these people and spend time with them in the pits.They are the 20% that do 100% of the work to keep you and my son on the water. Reading these forums there is much frustration and it shows. I feel the committee heads are listening to these posts and are thinking about our future. They love the sport as much as you and me. Sometimes more due to the fact they get paid zilch for being in their positions. What ever Choices the "J" and stock commitee make for 2011 lets try and be supportive of their choices and move forward.

[Shep]

Shep, the problem is this…Let’s say for the sake of this post you are able to take your OMC and put a restrictor in it and it runs let’s say 39MPH as a J.

Take our OMC (which is pretty good) put in a restrictor and it will only go 32. Put and AX restrictor in it and it only goes 46.

Take Scheffler’s Mercury put a restrictor in it and it only goes 33, pull it and he’s got a pretty fast AX…

There is such a huge disparity in the OMC & Mercury engines when you restrict them it’s crazy.

Great offer BTW so don’t take this wrong, I know you will do anything for anyone and are trying to help, This is the kind of data that is useful when making changes.

I don't take it wrong. If the test goes the way you say it could then we have confirmed it and know we need to move in a different direction. We know lil shep's stuff is good and he's a fairly consistent driver to work with to gather info.

I'd like to know the answers too.

[Big Don]

We own 2 engines and 2 props and 1 boat. D1 taught me that.

Dean I think were both missing each others point on the J thing...If you take a 32 MPH OMC and it goes 1.5 faster it's still 9 off the Mercurys...if you took every OMC in the pits that race "A" I bet MOST of the omc would not be good J engines. Maybe were talking the same thing?

If you just want to bump them X then send someone to the lake, test 8 different sizes…but it still does not fix your problem of the rig running last as a J and I thought that is what you were trying to fix. They’ll still run last, just 1.5 faster.

[Kev43V]

The J Committee allowing the Merc to run officially plugged has really hurt the OMC stay in the hunt. While the OMC should never get to be the motor of choice in the J Class division (J and AX), a little boost certainly seems in order to keep it interesting and affordable for people! Hopefully the J Committee will re-visit the plugging issue in Detroit!

Matt in principal I agree with you but in reality no way. Sure you can check if a motor is putting water out the exahast. but how much?. I can not believe that some enterpising people with only one *cooler full of beer in the shop*, can not figure out how to plug it some, somewhere to still spit some water to pass a visual inspecton. While still adding a signfigant amount of power.

* cooler full of beer- is a referance to the amount of time it takes several average boat racers. To consume the contents of said cooler while discussing the merits of the best way to do it.

[Shep]

* cooler full of beer- is a referance to the amount of time it takes several average boat racers. To consume the contents of said cooler while discussing the merits of the best way to do it.

That's funny but true

[Howie Nichols]

Dean,
I know for a fact that the Pinner's have 2 OMC's 1 is their A motor (it will not run good as a J) and 1 as their J motor (it doesnt run good as an A) I have helped them switch motors myself for both Joey & Justin run their respective classes.

So hopefully this won't discourage your newbies to bad or cost them a fortune to get started so we dont loose them alltogether.

[Richard Hearn]

The J Committee allowing the Merc to run officially plugged has really hurt the OMC stay in the hunt. While the OMC should never get to be the motor of choice in the J Class division (J and AX), a little boost certainly seems in order to keep it interesting and affordable for people! Hopefully the J Committee will re-visit the plugging issue in Detroit!

Matt, a plugged OMC or an unplugged one??? :-)

[mercguy]

Matt in principal I agree with you but in reality no way. Sure you can check if a motor is putting water out the exahast. but how much?. I can not believe that some enterpising people with only one *cooler full of beer in the shop*, can not figure out how to plug it some, somewhere to still spit some water to pass a visual inspecton. While still adding a signfigant amount of power.

* cooler full of beer- is a referance to the amount of time it takes several average boat racers. To consume the contents of said cooler while discussing the merits of the best way to do it.

it's NOT that hard to figure out if the motor is "plugged" or not..............even audibly, you can tell the difference!!!!!!! Simple, if the person is caught with a "plugged" motor...............red card them!!! Bet that will deter the act!!!

[reed28n]

OMC - Merc

I would support looking at the J Resrtictor size to slow the Mercury down in J.

Leave the AXS class alone and let it dominate. Leave the OMC's for the A class.

And for God sakes don't vote the Mercury out of the A Class that will nearly get you banned from the sport

[Matt Dagostino]

To Plug or not to plug!

Matt, a plugged OMC or an unplugged one??? :-)

Leave the OMC as is in the 'plugging' department and un-plug the Merc! Restrictor plates open pandora's box for all types of mis-information as Howie, Big Don and many others point out! Un-plugging the Merc is the quickest and proven way to knock speed out of the J and AX Merc's.

Hope you and Team Maintenance are heading to Clarksville, Va in a couple weeks to race with us Rednecks here in Region 4. There will be a bunch of J's here for you to race. Plus at the lakeside motel Jimmy Warren and Colleen will no doubt bring their 'corn-hole' lawn game for evening entertainment. What's not to like!!