Dyno test Bass / Engine

[ryan_4z]

I actually thought that this meant that the SORC considered all proposals, discussed them fully and then voted them up or down. BTW: if nothing had been done, the engine would've been legal in 06 with zero restrictions.

Low RPM torque and power: that's what everyone thought would cause the 302 to wipe out the 102 and the Merc A to destroy the OMC. It just hasn't happened, though. Ed.

It's not just low RPM torque and HP, the Tohatsu has more HP and torque all the way up to 7000 RPM. Then the Merc only slightly overtakes it. I think anybody can look at these graphs and see that the Tohatsu will dominate the Merc all around the race course. The all knowing, all mighty, SORC will not be able to make these motors compatable. At least that's what my dad says, and I tend to agree with him. Who are you guys trying to fool, and why, where is this going to get us.

As far as your comparisons to the 302 and Merc A, come on Ed, you are not talking about a difference of 3+ HP with those engines. That is a much bigger HP gap than exists in the C and A class motors.

[17W]

Ok....

Eddie: Reguardless it is in 2006 & beyond under close eye of key individuals, when do you suspect the members will see the "Action Plan" to achieve such parity that is needed? Any good problem solving process has an "Action Plan".

Safety Issue- why is this race engine shipped to a consumer without full butterflies?

Also will we see you @ the Region Meeting this Sunday? By the way the Outlet Malls are right next to the Radison, there are plenty of shoe stores.

[Steve Warnock]

Brent,

Nice one on the outlet stores; re-Oshkosh outlet stores!

Warbs

[David_L6]

FREAK,
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Don't you think that this particular topic should be left to the SORC, those that are building*the motors, those that race in*the D stock*class,*and maybe*those that*are interested in buying one of the motors. You are none of the above.*Start a new thread for your agenda.
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The other manufacturers that you mention below were never in the building in the first place. What have they done for stock outboard racing?
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That's utter non-sense. Allowing blueprinting to specs*creates parity.
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You don't believe that the Scott built*Mercury should be allowed?
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No more in this thread. If you care to further debate what you think a D stock should be start a new thread.

I agree. This thread should stay focused on the issues that started it. Start a new thread for anything else.

[David_L6]

I was born out of stock outboard racing my friend Hurricane. Being dismissive does not serve anyone's purpose.

The discussion about stock outboard racing produced more than one person looking at producing their own stock blocked and cowled racing engine. Some of other manufacturers and I happen to have a NOS Merc 450 - 44 inch all Merc, cowls and all and an NOS Mercury 500 Anniversary special, both Merc 44s and no blueprinting sitting in the garage suitable to mount on a universal water level exhaust and Bass gearcase even to join that movement. Who is to say it can't play your games and there are a few already dressed as "Canadian Ds" (Merc 400-450s-500s with center of block located spark plugs) that all ready do play that/your game. Do I register some fright here from those more priveleged to own a 44X or planning to buy a new Tohatsu/Bass D?????

Better ask yourself whose game you playing it for. The manufacturers and special production interests to keep narrow fields of basically blue printed deflectors and unblueprinted by loop charged Tohatsus for the few when opening it up to the masses with progressive thinking and adaptive rules would liven up the scene. Just what you guys afraid of?? Some old pure stock boys giving you a run for your money with a stock blocked and stock cowled different branded engine(s)?

Go start a new thread??? How about some coherent listening and actions?

John Taylor (FREAK, as Hurricane said is more accurate!), don't start the same B.S. here that you do on the swamp pit board.

[David_L6]

It's not just low RPM torque and HP, the Tohatsu has more HP and torque all the way up to 7000 RPM. Then the Merc only slightly overtakes it. I think anybody can look at these graphs and see that the Tohatsu will dominate the Merc all around the race course.

Looking at the dyno sheets that were posted, I have to agree. It sure looks like the Tohatsu has the advantage.

What do you do to equalize them? Add weight to the Tohatsu? Require restrictor plates in the Tohatsu? Allow modifications to the Merc?

[ANZANI-QUINCY FREAK]

Get Over Yourself

I think its unfortunate that others to bring up things from board to board and the name calling and insinuations sure doesn't make anyone else look very diplomatic either. I am on this board and other boards at their pleasure and permissions because I am passionate about the sport and where its going and that is all. I intend to keep it that way, no matter what others do pro of con. That is their game and not mine. Am I clear?

[pops67g]

Who is really worried here?

I find it very interesting here that guys that don't run D or guys that currently don't run at all seem to be going ballistic over this issue. All the horsepower/torque graphs you can generate mean nothing until you put one of these motors on a boat and squeeze the throttle. I've been waiting to hear real reviews on the Tohatsu's real world performance and while there were some a while back, I don't think anyone was impressed enough to bring these results up again. The Merc is far from dead. I just finished the 18th year of running mine and it's ready for more.

[crankbearing]

Agreed!!!!

I find it very interesting here that guys that don't run D or guys that currently don't run at all seem to be going ballistic over this issue. All the horsepower/torque graphs you can generate mean nothing until you put one of these motors on a boat and squeeze the throttle. I've been waiting to hear real reviews on the Tohatsu's real world performance and while there were some a while back, I don't think anyone was impressed enough to bring these results up again. The Merc is far from dead. I just finished the 18th year of running mine and it's ready for more.

I agree with you, I am not worried about getting beat by the motor. The issue to follow for the tohatsu is boat design, transom angles and props will all need to be adjusted for the new tohatsu motor as per the specs, prop diameters and pitch reported as tested. My dilemma with the whole thing is the way it was handled and the slap in the face for the work that was involved bringing the 44 back into production and with motors and parts available why do we need another as most have stated. As I stated in my first post on this thread common sense from day 1 without a dyno test already showed this motor as being more powerful with the HP ratings.

Believe me, I would not be upset if the course of action that was explained to me way back when this all proceeded actually stayed on course but it did not. Rules were tossed out the window and things were overlooked that really should not have been. I think this is why we have a BOD that we put in place is to act in the best interests of the members and support US to the full extent of the RULE books that what they were made for.

So if you look at the chain if events to date and currently talk to "d" members has this helped "absolutely not" most are of this opinion that they will just run MOD if the Tohatsu turns out to be competitive or not run at all. Now just how does that help to grow a class or a sport.


Regards,

[Brian10s]

[QUOTE=pops67g] I've been waiting to hear real reviews on the Tohatsu's real world performance QUOTE]

This is what I have been waiting for. Does anyone know of one that has run? How many people have laid hands upon it? How many have actually see it run? Was it at Nationals? How many Regions has the Bass raced in during the last year?
While I didn't pay that much attention all year, I don't remember seeing one and I'm sure there would have been a buzz if it had been there/ anywhere. I guess, although the rules had been followed, it sets a bad precedent that a motor gets legalized without it actually being raced during the probation phase, in many Regions for everyone to see. And I have not heard any production numbers for the next couple of years, can the Bass be produced in numbers if the demand is still there?
And while I do beleive that there can be 2 motors in the same class, it is a difficult task to acheive 100% parity. Hopefully they can make the Bass competitive without being dominant over the Merc but it will be a balancing act to do so. I wish the Competition Committee the best.

I guess, with the Bass as well as the Hot Rod, before they are deamed the greatest things since toilet paper and we should start canning all our current engines, I say quit telling me how great they will be and build them. Put some on the water.
I wish both group all the best and am hopeful for the future, I just wish for more testing data and less hype.

[14-H]

And then Worm and Pater go do more testing while the Merc guys sit on there asses, and we have the same situation again next fall.

I suppose they are much more qualified to put speed in a 25SSR in order to beat David Dewald's record than the likes of Ron Thomas, Bobby Austin, Brian Rhodes or Vic Brinkman or John Broge.

Give it up Ryan! The Yamatos are clearly faster than the Merc or the H/R right now but this does not mean that parity cannot be achieved in a class with multiple engines.

[14-H]

Action by D Class Parity Committee

The D Class Parity Committee met last evening and adopted the following rule changes for the D Bass/Tohatsu Engine:

1) A 1.0" propshaft height restriction measured at the plane of the center of the propshaft at its leading-most point on the gear case housing (ie: at the front of the gearcase) for both classes;
2) An additional 20lbs in weight for both DSR and DSH (ie: 525 DSR; 490 DSH);
3) A "no blue-printing rule".

These items will be printed in the next issue of the Propeller Magazine; Mike Ross will forward the exact wording to APBA for inclusion. Pursuant to APBA By-Laws, these rules become effective on December 1, 2005. EWH.

[14-H]

Tohatsu Re-eval

The D Class Parity Committee intends to meet after the Winternationals to evaluate the technical rules for this class and the outcome of this race in order to determine what, if any, additional changes or relief from these restrictions may be needed. These rules can then be adopted and implemented before Memorial Day.

[17W]

I find it very interesting here that guys that don't run D or guys that currently don't run at all seem to be going ballistic over this issue. All the horsepower/torque graphs you can generate mean nothing until you put one of these motors on a boat and squeeze the throttle. I've been waiting to hear real reviews on the Tohatsu's real world performance and while there were some a while back, I don't think anyone was impressed enough to bring these results up again. The Merc is far from dead. I just finished the 18th year of running mine and it's ready for more.

Mike: I may not race "D", but rest assured if an issue has to do w/Stock Outboard Racing I will comment were I see fit! If the Tohatsu gets into the right racers hands you & many others will be chasing it!!!

I'm done!

[Dr. Thunder]

Deja Vu ... or whatever ...

Anyone remember if the APBA enlisted the help of a parity committee back when ...

" ...Then one day along came this blue engine called a HOT ROD. Merc was not going to stand for another brand of engine kicking their butts. They tried all kinds of ways to make the 20H go faster. Finally they found the secret. A tuned pipe system.Merc sent Jack Leek a welded up sheet metal prototype to try out. He grabbed Billy Schumacher and his Hot Rod and they went out testing. They found that the Merc was faster and another page of history was born....The 20H conversion...toilet bowl...cornpopper ...whatever you want to call it. Permanent hearing loss. "

Thanks to Charlie Williams over at www.outboardracing.com for the quote!