Dyno test Bass / Engine

[cg43]

. Guys, don't make this more difficult than it needs to be.

We need new technology. Ever notice the advances in other motorsports? I think some of you need to open your eyes.

WELL SAID!!!!!!! ADVANCE ONLY ENHANCE AND KEEP THINGS FROM DIEING!!!!

[crankbearing]

New technology

OK! guys show me the new technolgy, where is it. It is a 2 stroke 3 carb, 3 cylinder engine. How is that new technology? When this first came out I suggested to the higher powers that we look at the Fuel injected model of this engine and I was told that the manufacturer did not want to push the fuel injection system! It would not stand past 7K rpm. Well how is that, remove the computer have it reprogrammed take out the rev limiter add some bigger injectors and away you go. there are several hundred companies that could do this. Heck you have V-6 Mercs revving 8k on fuel injection. Oh Ya - the manufacturer would then maybe have to spend some money on helping the sport we are in. See!!! read between the lines - Yes you can use our powerhead and yes you can advertise our name all over the contry but please do not ask for any reciprication because we cannot help you.

You will have to do better then that, I looked at the 30-40 4 stroke on our 44xs housing with a new adapter plate two years ago and was told that we did not want the D class going much more then 80 mph so that was shot down and that would have been new technology. just to let you know the 30HP 4 stoke is 45CI now.

did you notice that the only two stroke tohatsu listed now on the USA site is the 40CI no more 50. How many markets do they sell the carb version to and are they going to continue to build the carbs for our sport if you sell 3 or 4 or even 8 a year. C'mon guys I think not. Unless there is a long term contract with the manufacturer and Bass this will not happen, they by law do not have to produce them any more come January 06. Look at the Merc web-site there are no more two strokes even listed. You do the math...

Epa exempt or not the D50M2 carb motor is not available in Canada I have tried for two years. It is not an exempt motor in Canada the fuel injected model is.

4 stroke and fuel injection is new technolgy and this is what should be the goal of the SORC for new motors.

blinders are for horses, pass the sugar cube please.

Regards,

[ANZANI-QUINCY FREAK]

Newer Stock Block Technologies - The Spread of the Existing

When I was referring to newer technologies and this also arising from others was to be able to embrace from the Canadian "D" stocker to the Merc 55H through the Mercury/Mariner 44Xs and their recreations like yours, Yamaha, Suzuki, Johnson, Evinrude etc. etc, motors of relative close displacement size to a stock powerhead D class that opens it up to later being loop technologies already there and even back to some other deflector techology would also be okay too. With adaptive towers/midsections and adaptive gearcases of some universal standard, accepted. There is tons of that stuff around and manufacturer's racing support is not a key item so much. The support of a good spectator support event and base is what needs to be accomplished and the rest also comes along.

The last thing on my mind are stock powerhead injected engines though there is a future there too. What no one wants to see is some stock powerheaded 4 stroke outboard that has an onboard turbocharger and injection as that takes things just too far out for anyone reasonably anymore.

There are people out there already who woulp park a Merc 500 Anniversary Special 44 stock 4 cylinder on a Canadian D class format and go Merc/Mariner 44X hunting as well as Tohatsu/Bass D stalking because it is inexpensive enough to do so and have some fun doing it.

That always has been other people's and my drift on the topic.

There is room to accomodate everyone's effort here, new, re-new or future.

I will leave the newest technologies to Pro Outboard as that is where you find that kind of stuff progressing anyways.

[roperz111]

What was done then?

Well,

Let me say this is one interesting "debate" to watch. I'm not a D Stock racer, so as they say "I don't have a dog in this fight"; but I was curious about something. Being a CSH driver, and a longtime APBA member, I remember when the CSH and DSH classes in the 60's and 70's were the old Mercury 4-cyl. motors with the cowlings. Obviously these motors have been replaced by the new Mercury (DSH) and the Yamato 400cc (CSH). What was the mechanism used to replace these motors? How was it done then, and can something be done similar now to address these new motor issues?

Just a question and NOT taking any sides!!

Chris Johnson
111-Z

[csh2z]

Chris, The older C motors where phased out over a period of two or three years, I think. The D and 25 was not as smoothe a transition, It was dictated to us by the factory. John

[ryan_4z]

Chris,

That is a very good, and relevant subject to bring up. Like Dad said, the 102 was phased in over a 2-3 year period. I think that the Yamato ran with the Mercs for it's first 2 years, but everyone knew well in advance that in year 3 they would have to buy a Yamato to keep running C. Numbers wise, it is hard to compare to now, because C (as well as most of stock outboard) was seeing bad times in the mid-eighties. But the transition went smoothly, and I think it is obvious that it was a good move in the long run. This is proven by widespread participation in the C class over the last 12 years or so. With the D and 25 the transition was more abrupt, and, after the short lived Merc Challenge, those classes dropped off the radar. The only real incentive to buy one of these motors when they were introduced was to compete in the Merc Challenge. This change killed what was one of the greates classes in boat racing(25ssH/25ssR), and has since lead to the ultimate demise of Merc dominance in our sport. The lesson to be learned is that these changes must come about gradually, over a period of 2-3 years. That is of course if you stick with the idea of keeping single engine classes. In a this day of having private manufacturers(i.e. Selawach, Scott), that is the only reasonable way to keep them in business. Which will, in turn, keep us with readily available, ready to race motors. If we put these guys in competition with each other, they will put each other out of business, and then we have nobody making motors for us.

[mike ross]

Chris when I was running DSR at that time. I won the Nationals with Jack Neeleys good 55H. Jack ran With Racer Allen and Clark Maloof. This was put on a 12 ft boat and i won Wakefield going away. They had just passed the rule where we could run a 12ft boat rather than the old rule where you needed a 13 ft boat for DSR. The Merc Challenge came along in the following years and the new 44xs was introduced. I went to the first merc Challange and Fred Miller had a new Desilva and a 44xs and blew my doors off. Now i had bought a D motor(55H) from Harold Barnes and when I had my butt handed to me at Akron Ohio I had to run at the rear of the pack that year till I got a new 44xs. So back then the transition was a tough one. I had to buy a new motor to be competitive. There was never a SORC there tring to make the 44xs slower so not to obsolete my old 55H. Thank good we ran marathons where I lived as the 55H was still somewhat competitive and i was able to sell the engine to a marathon driver. Just a note of interest. A 55H won this year (2005) Marathon Nationals. I got a 44xs the next year and won the Short Coarse and Marathon that year with the new 44xs. So I guess when ever we transition a new motor there will be some bumps in the road. The good thing is we have a group of very knowledgeable people who look like they will pay attention and try there hardest not to have what happened to me back then happen again. This pairity commitee is key. They do it in Nascar and i have seen these guys complain at times when one of the makes seem to have a advantage over the other and there parity committee solve the issues to make it as fair as possible. Lets see if we can help the D drivers get more boats out playing and we will work out a fair way to keep it as equal as we can. Mike

[mike ross]

When the parity comitee meet last week it was brought up that an exhuast restrictor would be very easy to develope. I would be a lot easier to change than carb restrictors. I believe we will have a couple of these restrictors available in the near future so we can try them as a way to detune the Tahatsu. I don't like height and weight restrictions as i feel the driver should have a say in how he wants to set his rig up based on the design of his boat. A height restriction to make it safe is different then making it run deep to slow it down. Another huge difference the SORC passed was these changes to make the Tahatsu as equal to the Merc. We can do it during the racing season if we see something way out of whack. So my pitch to all those folks with a Tahatsu is get out and do the testing so the SORC has some solid data to review. What you do on the water soon will dictate what you get to run this year. Mike

[csh2z]

And if you work real hard and get going real fast, we'll change the rules so as not to hurt anybodies feelings. John 2-Z

[DougMc]

Exhaust Restrictor

When the parity comitee meet last week it was brought up that an exhuast restrictor would be very easy to develope.

Mike,

I'm not a D driver, but am getting one heck of an education regarding motors from these D threads.

My question is, what is an exhaust restrictor and how does it work? Is this similar to the 102 restrictor for 20SSH?

[sam]

An exhaust restrictor on a 3 cylinder 2 stroke? If it doesn't cause the motor to self destruct it is very likely to improve accelleration on the water

[crankbearing]

exhaust restrictions

The yamaha that I said was tested in 95 on a 44 housing and boot that went 90+ blew up for that exact reason is was already to restricted in the exhaust side could not relieve fast enough heated up and stuck the pistons on the exhaust side.

Regards,

[pro350hydro]

So "D" stock drivers could have a choice of buying older/used or remanufactured equipment, or newer equipment and you guys are arguing about this.


Why hunt for hard to find parts, when you could go and buy from and support a local dealer and not miss a race due to not being able to locate a part in time for next weekends race.

Nobody is saying sell your mercury and buy a tohatsu. If you mercury guys are so worried about this new motor, why not prove it on the water? It's time to accept some change. Change is going to happen in any motor sport and you have to keep up with the times.

If i had a mercury, it would just make me work harder to be competitive in the class. Nothing makes me work harder than getting beat. Maybe not everybody agrees with that, but that is just me.


Maybe you guys just have a bad case of the mercury blues?

[crankbearing]

So "D" stock drivers could have a choice of buying older/used or remanufactured equipment, or newer equipment and you guys are arguing about this.


Why hunt for hard to find parts, when you could go and buy from and support a local dealer and not miss a race due to not being able to locate a part in time for next weekends race.

Nobody is saying sell your mercury and buy a tohatsu. If you mercury guys are so worried about this new motor, why not prove it on the water? It's time to accept some change. Change is going to happen in any motor sport and you have to keep up with the times.

If i had a mercury, it would just make me work harder to be competitive in the class. Nothing makes me work harder than getting beat. Maybe not everybody agrees with that, but that is just me.


Maybe you guys just have a bad case of the mercury blues?

You are certainly right we have 60,000$$$ case of Mercury blues and APBA has a 20,000$$ case of Mercury blues, the idea of APBA getting involved in the 44 Reman project was to adapt a new powerhead to the 44XS mid-section and have a multi-platform mid-section available to use across any class. By the looks of all this it was a wasted effort in dollars and time.

I am still not nor have I ever complained about the competition I welcome competition on a level playing field. Do not tell me that I have to change my motor and my specs to allow another motor into the class I race. If you want to come and race with a new motor then you will have to adapt to the way it's run.

My whole beef since this whole thing began is that THE RULES WERE NOT FOLLOWED and things were done to a class that didn;t need any help, it was growing. The only reason there were not 12 boat at the nationals is because you split them up as I have stated before, I think there was 11. If myself and the keegans were there there would have been 5 more.

Regards,

[hshawwpba]

Approval tohatsu

The Bass engine is still legal in D Stock. As far as I know, there was no vote on the status of this motor. As it stands right now, the motor is legal until a vote is taken to remove it. I also understand that this motor was shown to have more HP than the Merc. Why it is going to be allowed into a class where there are currently available motors is beyond me. Especially considering that if it has more HP it shouldn't be difficult to start beating Mercs with this motor. As far as I am concerned this is not the situation we want to put ourselves in with a D class that is currently in a position to start growing again with the Merc 44. If we are making the decision to switch motors, then that is what must be done. But I certainly don't see that happening at all. What it looks like to me is that the commission is going to try to achieve parity between these two motors. Well, leaving that up to our commission is a joke. We have seen no evidence to support the idea that this motor is the future of the D class. And with some kind of production(even if it may be limited) of the Merc, I read this as the commission giving a big middle finger to Dave Scott, who they supported in his endeavor to re-manufacture the Merc 44.

Dave took on this project on his own, he was not ever told the 44 was an exclusive engine. Many racers are tired of waiting for this old motor to be built from other blocks and parts. The real issue I believe is the select few that have intrest and certain 44 engines that can not be duplicated and now are afraid of real competition coming into the class.
I believe the tech committte can and will control this issue if we give them time to set up the process. New engines are good for the sport, I'm glad to see the motor approved as it should be!