SO Class Reduction Proposal

[Gunjumper]

I'm down...

I support it Dean, in all regards. This coming from a father of a prospective stocker therefore concerned about the future, a rollup Sidewinder BSR driver, and a 25/CSR driver. As for the mandatory rollup BSR status, what's the point? Why turn away any possible new drivers/veteran drivers looking to flat turn/entry fees in general? In my opinion, now is not the time to be selfish, if we have to give a little for the better of the sport, then it's a good investment for our future. Greg

[STEVE FRENCH]

I'll repeat my thought on the 25SSH class.....Leave'm alone.

This is the one class that makes a serious effort to communicate with each other and have 5+rigs ....or they don't show/pull motors from motor box....at all.

At club level races they are still a valuable asset.

Time will determine their fate.........Let'm fade away.

[Howie Nichols]

[QUOTE=pav225;166126
I know there will be some pushback, so I figured I would give my 2 cents on combining AXSH/AXSR with ASH/ASR:
- Many folks comment that they don't want the AX drivers in the same race as the "crazy" or "hard driving" A drivers. I think the simple answer is that they can run J until they are ready for A speed. Race J and test A until ready to race it.
- The reality is that AX speeds are now very close to A speeds...we witnessed this at PP this weekend. As AX equipment continues to improve, it will be VERY competitive with the OMC and SW.
- If a driver isn't ready to compete in A, but wants to go faster than J, they can run in the back of the pack in A until they are ready to go deck-to-deck with experienced A drivers. This may create races with a few "packs" of boats in a single heat. I think this is a good thing as people will have a higher likelihood of being able to race someone and gain experience.
- The old JSHs (60-J) ran about 30 mph and an ASH with a KG4s ran close to 55? . Today JHs run 42+ and ASHs run 57ish so the delta in speed today is less than it was in the past which should make for an easier transition to A.

I know there will still be obstacles, but I like the thinking!

- Mike[/QUOTE]

Pav,
I think the issue with some of the AX drivers isn't the speed its the level of competition, and yes they will probably migrate themselves to the back of the pack but maybe not. The reality is that they may steal a start on the inside and get to turn 1 with some of the big guns either just catching them or ?? and then the AX driver says "o s..t" and gets into trouble they don't have the experience to get out of when a more experienced A driver saws the nose off their boat.

As for staying in J I think it would cause some of the drivers to stop running if that was their option and since its kids it would probably be hard to pull them back in. Just thoughts...

I love the AX class, always seams to have a great battle somewhere. Stillwill and Acierno ran deck to deck, less than a foot apart for 2.5 laps at Lock Haven on Monday, great race.

[Big Don]

Steve, why not just make it a local class then, if the local club wants to run them, let them?

[STEVE FRENCH]

Steve, why not just make it a local class then, if the local club wants to run them, let them?

SO WHAT WOULD CHANGE HERE?
....No points/Nationals?....Noooooo entry fees
Or would it become a "Classic" class......(That would have ta beg ta be included on the sanction..........."if the local club wants to run them").

Well that's all I have.........

[MGallagher]

Greg,

I say leave it roll-up for a 3 yr. trial to feel out the wants and needs and see whether or not this would truly effect entries. Newbees and veterans have plenty and will have plenty of options. Marketing wise, I believe an elite class with a traditional feel of nostalgia is important to both our present and future ability to sell and promote the sport. There is nothing selfish about retaining an outboard tradition and moving forward all at the same time.

[26V]

Motor NO classes YES!

I like the proposal, and think it would put us on a better footing and be more attractive to new racers, we need to consolidate.
Just do it! Geter done!

Eliminate my CLASS, but not my MOTOR! If we are going to keep 30yr old Y80's viable, and 25yr old OMC's What is the point of eliminating the Blue top SW15H?
SW15H the blue fly wheel, it should be able to run anywhere you propose the 15ci Hot Rod. Are we there yet NO. But give us the chance to bring it along. How long did it take the Mercury 15 to become viable in J or AX? The motor is just starting to perform at a level that it is now interesting to drive. I believe we are currently running at 12.6-7CC's with mine. Maybe we can drop that to 11cc's or we can punch the blue top to 16 or 16.5 CI, drop the weight for it? I don't have the experience to say what will work. So I hope someone with more experience will pipe in with some viable suggestions. There has to be a way to allow the blue top to run. It is a solid motor but it will take a little more time to make it a solid contender.
And yes with a slightly bigger boat and 4 mph I would run the 20ssh class or BSH if that is what it becomes. I and anyone between 150 – 160lb would be right on target if the 15ci motors could run BSH at their current weight. This would allow smaller drivers to run more the just the A class. The boats may be a little bigger but they don't weight that much more.
Just my thoughts as I sit here and contemplate how much it might cost to get my block updated to a white top or a red top. And realizing it will have to be a white top so that I don't have to add 70 + pounds of lead so that I can run B. It would really suck to be stuck to one class
I for one am not going to “ take my toys and go home” I will find a place to race in stock outboard. I just hope that my motor stays.



This national meeting is going to be huge to all of us. It may be very painful for me personally, But it is very exciting to think that the stock commission may finally be ready to make the changes needed to put our sport on the path to a better future. I suggest putting Nuccio and Jim Sweeney as Sargent at arms, to bar the door. A,B,C,D make it work! Fine tune for motors ( all of them), fine tune for drivers as most of us want to run more then one class. So make our current motors Work!



PS, I am going to be royalie pissed if you eliminate a motor that the commission made legal 2 years ago. Not that my being pissed will matter to most of you. But Eliminating this motor will not send a good message to any racer. I can hear the conversation now.... OOH by the way just because its a brand new motor ( that we have been dieing for) and its been legal for two years does not mean you will be able to run it next year. Man up Commissioners and give the blue top the latitude you did the Merc 15.



I will be at the National meeting to watch these historic events in person. I really believe that if the commission follows through with the class changes it will be both a courageous decision and the right one for all of us.


PPPSSS or whatever, BSR is a true tradition in Stock Outboards, Don't destroy it by allowing the side fin. I really like the side fin in A, but running or watching the BSR class is almost priceless, Please don't change it!

[csh12M]

26V you are the last one I want to Piss off

26V you are the last one I want to piss off You were an early adopter! You were the one that put Sidewinder on the map! You are the one that showed us a one man operation can build a great little dependable motor. I would not support any proposal that did not include a factory upgrade or the SO promo committee paying to convert your motor?

I also don't care if we keep it in the new BSH class, but my question is why would you want to? If I covered the cost to convert your blue top to a red top 20CI Sidewinder for BSH wouldn't you rather own and race that? Same engine, just a lot closer to running the right speed?

I don't get it, why would you want you 15CI Sidewinder in the class if I gave you the 20CI?

Thanks,
Dean

[Big Don]

Hot Rod experts...by going to 12CC does this increase the risk of having engine failure? Just seems to me that when they went to 13cc we have a lot less engine failures.

[Tomtall]

Pav225

I know there will be some pushback, so I figured I would give my 2 cents on combining AXSH/AXSR with ASH/ASR:
- Many folks comment that they don't want the AX drivers in the same race as the "crazy" or "hard driving" A drivers. I think the simple answer is that they can run J until they are ready for A speed. Race J and test A until ready to race it.

It's not just driving skill. Body weight plays into this as well. As your kid gains weight he/she gets slower in "J" class. His/her driving skills cannot improve if he/she is going backwards. Put them in a "A" boat where they need to add 80 lbs. to make weight to race ------ Down right dangerous.

[racer3j]

Dean, How about we get back to basics.
Lets put the 15ci motors back into A stock the evinrude, Merc, sidewinder 15s and hot rod 15 with parity committee. BSR, 20ci hot rod, 20 ci Sidewinder.
CSR yamato 102/302 and 25 merc. DSR keep the same ASH same as ASR. BSH same as above but add yamato 80, and for C stock and D stock keep the same. Do what ever you think with 25ssh because I have no idea. And as far as roll up vs. side fin why don't we let the boat builders and the innovators decide what they want to build. Because with out a side fin there would be no CSR.
Thanks to Spud Hemp we do have side fins.
Rich Runne

[BP125V]

not to be rude

Rich Runne,

DSR should not be a class, let it run as a local class for the oddball MI race, marathons, and for Top 'O only.

The points summary on the APBA website supports my position. No one races the class.

Bill

[26V]

Dean, two real reasons.
One, with a 20ci my issue is the weight required to run the class. I weigh 140 on a heavy day. add 120lb for boat, call it 70 for motor. 140+120+70=330lb Now add 70 lb of lead or more. read bludgeoned to death in an accident, and beat boat apart every time you race. Very true Tom, that much added weight is a disaster waiting to happen.


Two, How old is the 15ci hotrod? You are proposing making it a viable motor in the new class structure. I see no reason why you, Stock outboard or Racing Outboards should have to pay to change the motor to the SW15S or the SW20S. Allow the blue top the same privilege as the Hotrod to be a racing motor. Let us continue to work with the motor. The last I heard Racing Outboards has not given up on the motor why should you? When they call me and say its just not going to work, that is when I will consider changing the motor to something else, not before.

[racer3j]

OK then eliminate DSR, but not to be rude but that was not one of the concerns of the post.

[BP125V]

......... DSR keep the same ASH same as ASR. BSH same as above but add yamato 80, and for C stock and D stock keep the same........
Rich Runne

just trying to clarify what was in your post. probably not worth the time we just spent posting about it.

Bill