SO Class Reduction Proposal

[csh12M]

I decided to start a separate thread specifically for the class structure plan that I reviewed last week in the “future” post. I am hoping to keep this thread dedicated to this idea and plan only. Please lets all agree that you can express any opinion without any fear of ridicule. I am trying to gauge interest and need from the membership. I am willing to try and refine, drive and implement, but only if it is what people think is necessary. If you can’t or won’t live with it, please express that. I don’t want to waste my time for something no one can live with.

I promised some feedback. At MHRA last race of the year, Big Rapids, MI last weekend I presented the class restructuring that I presented earlier in the “Future” post. I reviewed it Sun. morning at the drivers meeting and invited feedback throughout the day. I had ten different drivers give opinions to me throughout the day, all were in favor. I was hoping that I would get response from 20 or 30.... I did ask some of the drivers who would be most affected those with current BSH rigs and 25SSR and all were in favor or could live with the format of the combinations. We did not have any 25SSH drivers to speak with, and these would be the hardest hit.

To review what I am proposing is the following class structure:

Hydros and Runabout still compete independently and we still race a two heat format. The classes raced our as follows:

ASR and ASH - Essentially no change in the current class, OMC, Merc., Sidewinder.

BSR - The current Rotary Valve Hot Rod, but back at 12cc from the current 13. The addition of the 20CI (red flywheel) Sidewinder, potentially with some tweaking on the 20 to keep parity with the Hot Rod. Runabout guys decide whether it is roll up only, or roll up and sidefin.

BSH - The current 20SSH class becomes BSH, using the all the exact same rules and weights as 20SSH does now. Additionally, the 15CI Rotary Valve Hot Rod at 12CC (just like BSR above) at current BSH weight and the 20CI Sidewinder (red flywheel) at the currents 20SSH weight. (just like it is now)

CSR - The current CSR stay exactly the same in regards to weights and motors. Additionally we roll in the current 25SSR class with all its rules and weights exactly the same. We can discuss whether the Merc needs the restrictor back in it or not (that is a detail that is easily handled one way or the other)

CSH - The current CSH stays the same, no change. We discuss how to roll in the current 25SSH.

DSR and DSH - No change

These combinations would get SO back to A,B,C,D

Benefits:
-Easier for the New Name Member to purchase equipment at various budget points

-Easier for the New Name Racer to be competitive

-New competitive motor for every class and an old potentially less expensive motor for every class

-Race day schedule get shorter, enough to run the whole schedule three times in two day (keep entries high) or to allow the full Stock schedule to be run with the MODS easier.

-Higher boat counts in every class

-If we can run three in two you get much more race time for a single rig investment. Even for veterans this could mean owning fewer rigs to get the same amount of water time. Maybe you don’t need the monster enclosed trailer now.

-Potentially a higher percentage of people get to 15 races for the season.

-Potentially shorter race day on Sunday

-Racing Outboards (Sidewinder) only has to concentrate production on two motor combination's

Downside:

-25SSH is on the outside looking in; to run in CSH it would need a VERY significant restriction package that would most likely kill anyone wanting to try it.

-15 Hot Rod at 12CC usually runs on a 34” inch wide bottom, could be a handful l running with Yamatos on a 36” wide bottom

-Racing Outboards may want to sell three engines?

-Some racers have purchased the 15CI Sidewinder (blue flywheel) that get eliminated, how do we help them switch to the 20CI or the 15CI A(white flywheel)?

I really believe this to be a “workable” implementable plan, but I for sure don’t have every detail covered. Give some feedback, let’s make it better. I am willing to help drive the process if it is what others want as well. What I don’t want to do is waste time. If you hate it, or could not live with it speak up? You will not be ridiculed for it. I do not want to waste a lot of effort and phone calls for something no one would support.

Thanks,
Dean
CSH12M

[BP125V]

question

this is a lot to consider Dean, thanks for your time and effort.

One comment (for now) what is your opinion about 3 heat races?

Bill

[csh2z]

Dean,
It is a good proposal, there will have to be some tweeks but it is workable. We would have to have a parity committee for each class. Each committee should work independently from the commission so commissioners could focus on marketing and promoting the sport.
Would there be a goal of eventually returning to the one motor per class program?

[14-H]

There is no reason that the format Dean proposes won't work. It will, however, only significantly impact The Northeast and the midwest. The west coast and the south and south east run vastly different programs than are run in the midwest and the northeast.

I am in complete agreement that we have too many classes. The problem with the proposals in the near past (and, I believe, the reason for the change in the SORC last year) was that there was a national mandate eliminating motors from classes that many regions relied upon for entries in classes. There is no reason, however, that local races cannot implement this strategy now and no reason that it has to be limited to stock outboard.

For instance, Three Rivers Outboard used to run a two-cylinder Mod Hydro, two-cylinder Mod Runabout, Four cylinder Mod-Hydro, Four Cylinder Mod Runabout race schedule. This year at Lock haven, BSR was combined with BMR. 25SSR was combined with FER!!!

Three and Four boat heats are VERY BORING. We do it Dayton ONLY because our main objective at Dayton is running for records. If I were running a non-record run race, we would fill the field with class combination until we got as close to 12 boats on the water as possible. All that has to be done is separate scoring for each class.

I do agree, however, on a national level, that we need to reduce the number of classes. We have 2 A Hydro classes, 2 A runabout classes, 2 B Hydro classes, 2 C Hydro classes, and 2 C Runabout classes in Stock Outboard. There is no need for this.

On the other hand, NONE of this equipment should be eliminated. It should have a home in Stock where it is still competitive. The members believe this. It is the message from last fall's election. I am still committed to making sure that happens along with making sure that new equipment has a home and is competitive as well.

[Big Don]

We combined the BSH’s with the 20’s this past weekend at Pleasant Prairie. Hopefully they will comment on how they thought it went. From a pure number of boats (11) on the water I thought it was great.

[csh12M]

Three Heat Races

Hello Bill I gave that idea a lot of consideration, but in the end I did not think it address's the core problems. It was more treating the symptom instead of treating the problem. We have to many classes that run similar speeds and we are slicing the current membership to thin. Mikes sliding scale of heats (his proposal one) has interesting merit, but anyone who thought they would only get one heat would just skip the race... Lets keep the racing the same for everyone. It is simpler that way, I don't want to explain to the "new name" heat complexity on top of motor decision.

The format I outlined gets the "whole" program down to 20 heats with J. Six heats an hour is the best pace a race can run. That puts the program right at 3.5 hours. This allows it to easily run three times in two days and gives a single rig six heats. At a combined MOD/Stock events (more the norm) all the Stock classes can be on the schedule each day not just the popular ones. Now every kneel down race in the U.S. can run the same SO schedule. If we go to three heats we lengthen the race day and therefore force the scheduling of only the most popular local classes. Again, explaining this to a "new name" is difficult and does not promote class growth. The perfect example of this is the current BSR and BSH class. Those two classes are the BEST ride in all of SO. I have raced every Stock class with the exception of D and the B is the best! At Big Rapids, a Grass Lake Racer School graduate came to learn what class he should race next year. He weighs 175lbs. BSH and BSR are perfect right? Can you in good faith really recommend that right now? Now if that class raced less heats because it is local.....it just doesn't work.

Additionally, and probably more importantly, three heats does not fix the revenue problems of putting on an event. I believe we will have to raise entry fees significantly soon, which is not the worst thing in the world. MHRA is still holding the line at $27 per class. As a club Commodore I would rather offer more bang for the buck, which is the potential for getting three races in. For three entry fees I believe we can maintain a lesser amount $25-30 per entry.

[csh12M]

Ed response

My proposal is a National Proposal that would benefit SO and MOD not just Midwest and Northeast. I fully understand the problems out west. However, local class scheduling does not promote growth. Please read my previous post on the B class. Local scheduling does nothing but treat the symptoms and perpetuate the problem. Now combine the fact that the cost of new equipment has gone up, a new rig cost $6-8 grand. Local scheduling will make class growth even more difficult. Now for the west coast to get BSR racing you need 4 people to jump in....it just doesn't make sense. The only class I can recommend right now to a new name is A, with the OMC or Sidewinder, or 20 and C with the 302 or D. If we cant recommend the class to a new name racer, in good faith, then it should not exist because growth is not feasible. You do not keep around a product that loses money.

I do agree with your point about equipment. I see no need to obsolete the existing equipment. Quite the contrary the existing equipment should be maintained and parity developed to keep it competitive (which is not the case in AXSH, but that is another category) If we could achieve this parity we would have great options for both ends of the economic spectrum. New equipment for the guy that has disposable income, but not disposable time. Older equipment that can still compete, but is lower cost.

If we could achieve these goals we could have "real" sustained growth Nationally!

[MGallagher]

Even though I have been a little out of the loop of boat racing the past couple years I still believe that Dean's plan is a good one. My only concern is the BSR. I am a strong supporter of the class given that my brother is a top competetor. However, I am also in strong support of the current BSR class because of its marketability, its simplicity, and the action it provides to spectators. I believe the ability of this class to provide a platform to promote stock runabout racing is unmatched by any other runabout class.

Bottom line is, if the BSR class goes side fin, I would not support the proposal.

[csh12M]

Matt

Matt, you cant throw out the baby with the bathwater. You would really be opposed because of a fin?

Your brother wont have anyone to race against soon? BTW that rig is crazy fast!

What I wrote is not all or nothing, lets keep it roll up if that is what most people want. Personally, I think your bros rig would still win against sidefins.

Think bigger picture, imagine 10 BSR all HotRods and Sidewinders every weekend. It could happen, but it won't the way we are structured now. I cant, and wont, recommend the current B classes to any new name racer the way it exists today.

[dholt]

Dean is absolutely correct.

Whatever changes are made in Stock (and Mod should be looking as well) need to be National mandates.

The goal should be for the entire country to race under the same rules and move toward the same goals. We want to eliminate the current model where there are zero BSR (Hot Rod/Sidewinders) on the west coast and south but a handful in the midwest and east.

When a new driver puts down his hard earned money to buy equipment, he needs to know he can go anywhere in the country and race. Otherwise, why have national rules and a national organization?

If rules aren't passed Nationally, then there's really no need to discuss this issue because combining classes has been at the discretion of local clubs all along. And look where that has gotten us? Dwindling membership with racers scattered all over TOO many classes.

I've said this before...and say it again. If there are limited choices of classes, then all future new drivers will be funneled into the same direction.

And back to Dean's concept...I don't know how you would ever get 25ssH to run equally with CSH. That would take some serious work.

[Tim Weber]

I could live with the ideas posted. I especially like the 3 heat per race idea.
I wasn't sure about it until I ran at the Pro nationals. The 3rd heat can really be exciting.

Let's hear from the OSY guys and gals who have run at Depue.

Tim

[jsilvestri]

Dean, I like the plan you've formulated and would support it. As far as the side fin argument goes, that could be a thread all by itself.

[jsilvestri]

I could live with the ideas posted. I especially like the 3 heat per race idea.
I wasn't sure about it until I ran at the Pro nationals. The 3rd heat can really be exciting.

Let's hear from the OSY guys and gals who have run at Depue.

Tim

Go back to Dean's original post, he is not proposing three heats.

[mercguy]

go for it!!!!

this format seems absolutely DO-ABLE!!!

just curious, what is the big diference between the West Coast vs. East Coast race format, scheduling, etc? I have not noticed there to be much of a difference, other than a few different classes, etc........

[Howie Nichols]

Dean I like it and support it!

As for BSR - My thought is leave it roll up for now.

25SSH in CSH - lets do it - no one gets left behind, tweak as we go or at a minmum start out with the restrictor plate back in.

I would say stay with 2 heats until we get a good working format / program length, then go from there. This leaves room on the schedule for the J / MOD / PRO categories to run as well, even SLT and OPC like we sometimes do here in R5.

Bottom line is present it or whoever gets elected this fall needs to!!!

Great job.