SO Class Reduction Proposal

[ricochet112]

How about test the 25xs aT the 440 pound csh weight and see how the speed is then.

You will most likely lose all the 25 drivers with that change...

[csh12M]

Kev43V

Kev,

Why not the Sidewinder 15CI (blue flywheel)? A couple of reasons:

- Somethings gotta go

- Three seasons of watching the motor and it is still performing way off the pace

- If effects the least amount of people

- I can not recommend the motor to any New Name, in good faith, because the other classes are better options for all sizes of people

- The only way I can see it competing is to slow down the Rotoray Valve Hot Rod, which we could do but then the BSH class is going 59-60...just getting to close to A speed

- Does not have National growth potential

- We cant eliminate 20SSH to many people race it

These are the reasons I think it has to go, the 20CI Sidewinder would take its place. I applaud your efforts, all your efforts, towards boat racing. I would not support any plan that did not help you convert the motor to an A or to the 20CI without cost (we have not even gotten to that yet). However, I think that is the class that has to go.

It is just an idea, but I think it would solve a lot of problems. The new BSH class would again be 63-65MPH ride and the BSR 61-63.

[pav225]

Js?

All,
I'm assuming that since it is a "Stock" discussion that you didn't mention JH and JR....These would be included in the race program, correct?

[dholt]

Yes, the 1 cc reduction with the Hot Rod would get back about 1 mph.

I saw 65 the final year I ran BSH. Mostly it was upper 64ish. But there is no torque compared to Yamato. It would be a rough ride behind a couple Yamatos. You break out front and would be tough to pass a real good one. I remember Ed's winning times in BSH at the Nationals were almost equal to my times in 20ssH back in early 2000's.

AS for BSR, you'd get to about 58 1/2. Maybe 59 on a wider bottom side fin boat. We saw 60 on the ASR 'Z' Craft in 1998.

The 20ci SW would have to get detuned to run with the 15ci Hot Rod. Austin and Nuccio's rig are certainly running faster than 59 mph. Just saying that motor is faster now and there's more in it as people test.

[wagner-racing16-s]

There is not that much difference between a c and a 25. I bet if you ran a c at 400 pounds then it would be a close race. So figure a way to even them out. this would just be a way to start to try to figure out what to do.

[csh12M]

Pav225

Yes, we would race J's. As you mentioned, it is controlled by another category, but absolutely raced at every race.

J, A, B, C, D 20 heats, AX classes combined with A if turnout was light or run on its own. Local clubs decision on how to handle that.

[csh12M]

Dana

Detune the 20CI Sidewinder a bit, but wouldn't a 62MPH runabout ride be great?

I know it would eventually force you to buy a Sidewinder, would you consider it? Especially if you knew you could race against eight every weekend?

Your rotary valve still have a lot of value to the 250CCR guys. You sell one of those and you are half way to a 20CI Sidewinder and 62MPH of crazy roll up action! or sidefin or whatever you guys decide.

[Racerkyle20]

J's

Definitely need to get the J committee involved if you want to combine AX and A. I would support that, but again more people would need to be invloved with that process.

BSR- ALL ROLLUP ALL DAY! That's what makes the class awesome to watch and unique to Stock outboard racing!

[Kev43V]

The 2 Sidewinder 15H are starting to fend for themselves against the hot rod in my opinion. but to actually keep up with the twentys? I think you would have to run a bigger boat than I have used to date in B, to handle the rougher water. Could it do it with a bigger boat and maybe less weight? I just do not have the depth of knowlege to know.

DonIII I think we are pulling much better in the corners now. after Gene looks at the Micron data we will know more. I think we are still off of the "right" wheel. and feel that the last "bug" fixed was one of, if not the most signifigant one ever. We are just now dialing in how advanced of timing we can run and how lean we can go. We are seeing Rpm we have never seen before. With that less bogging in the corners.
Gene is still basicaly running the same 2 props he has been all along. With the exception of the few that have been tryed from a couple of other trailers last year. I suspect they would have a much greater improvement in performance now that the motor is no longer in Pooch mode.

[raceright]

[Big Don]

There is not that much difference between a c and a 25. I bet if you ran a c at 400 pounds then it would be a close race. So figure a way to even them out. this would just be a way to start to try to figure out what to do.

I would still want Joey Z's 25 ride then... I have no clue but based on what I see I'm willing to bet he's running over 72. I know our C is no where close to that. But I would support C weight being 400.

Don't take this serious...just having fun I know they'll never lower the C weight.

[Kev43V]

It seems to me the only real rub on the axs and A running together is that you have to be 14 to run A and 12 to run AXS. So it would impact every driver less than 14 in axs. I cannot see a way to let those drivers compete in a combined race and meet the rules as they are written for A stock.

[csh12M]

AX and A classes

I am not proposing combining these classes at a National level.

I did suggest that local race committee or clubs could consider combining them to save time during the race day.

12M

[MGallagher]

Dean,

First, let me say that I DO agree with your proposal and will fully support it.

However, my view on Stock Outboard racing is not as optomistic as most, so I have a different view on the "bigger" picture. For me, I see the BSR and CSH class as being a jumping point for taking Stock Outboard out of those far away lakes and rivers and putting it on the banks of rivers and lakes closer to $$$$. I say CSH because its the closest thing to the UIM's OSY and those guys are able to compete in waters that would cancel most of our races. The same goes for BSR, I believe, because of the versatility and manouverability of roll-up runabouts and there abilty to race over the crap.

Its one hell of a theory, I know, but thats what I think and why it is important to have a true roll-up only runabout class.

[pav225]

Dean's Proposal

I am all for bigger fields of boats!!!
It makes the racing more exciting for the drivers and the spectators! I think it also creates an "energy" that can bring people to more races. This is something that you can't get with 4 boat fields.

I know there will be some pushback, so I figured I would give my 2 cents on combining AXSH/AXSR with ASH/ASR:
- Many folks comment that they don't want the AX drivers in the same race as the "crazy" or "hard driving" A drivers. I think the simple answer is that they can run J until they are ready for A speed. Race J and test A until ready to race it.
- The reality is that AX speeds are now very close to A speeds...we witnessed this at PP this weekend. As AX equipment continues to improve, it will be VERY competitive with the OMC and SW.
- If a driver isn't ready to compete in A, but wants to go faster than J, they can run in the back of the pack in A until they are ready to go deck-to-deck with experienced A drivers. This may create races with a few "packs" of boats in a single heat. I think this is a good thing as people will have a higher likelihood of being able to race someone and gain experience.
- The old JSHs (60-J) ran about 30 mph and an ASH with a KG4s ran close to 55? . Today JHs run 42+ and ASHs run 57ish so the delta in speed today is less than it was in the past which should make for an easier transition to A.

I know there will still be obstacles, but I like the thinking!

- Mike