25SSR Record Smashed

[14-H]

25SSR philosophy

I disagree with Mike: the 25SSR class should be eliminated if all it will be is a second CSR class. The Yamatos were legalized for the purpose of giving the Mercs and the Hot Rods people to play with AND as a potential second class for the guys with Yamatos. If we can't fulfill BOTH reasons, the class should be eliminated. Then the guys with the Mercs and Hot Rods can run BMR. The 25SSR is a great experiment, but let's not lose the Merc guys. My solution: 1-3/8 for everybody. If that's too much of a restriction for the Yamatos, pull the restrictors and give 'em the punch back. But put everyone at 1-3/8". 14-H.

ADD: By the way, if I were the 25SSH guys, I'd oppose like hell the introduction of another motor based upon the track record in 25SSR.

[mike ross]

Here's what I will do. I will take the Yamato to Grass Lake and test all the different ideas suggested. 1'3/8 below the bottom, 20ss restrictor, different weight, I will also get Vic Brickman or another quility 25ssr and do the things suggested to improve the Mercury. I would like to have Dean there to witness what we come up with as I respect his opionon and feel he is a person who can convey this to the commision on a racers level. Then we will have data to compare like Steve Warnock did when the new 25 was introduced. This is crazy to make a blanket statement on what we should do when there is no data to compare. I think everyone involved here is interested in the results. We still will have the issue of turn fin boat 12 foot boat vs rollup boat 10 ft boat. The results will be in well before the national meeting so we can have some great ideas to review. Any one else who would like to be there would be welcome. Matt if you guys out east would like to conduct these tests you have Milville were you could get us the Yamato data. Can't wait to see the results as I love boat racing and love to see finals like we had this year. Hope to have something to report soon!!!! Mike

[MGallagher]

The second class CSR's end up running around me is CMR, not 25SSR. The 25 class gives the oppurtunity to run a completely different class. In CMR, most of the time the guys run the same exact rig they run in CSR. However, in 25 you take the led out, change the prop, carborator, and possibly a motor change. There is alot more to this class than you think.

My point is, get rid of CMR, NOT 25. I feel that a chairman should be a little bit more supportive of a growing class. You give us a "bla, bla, bla" a couple of posts ago and then you start off your next post with eliminating 25SSR? I have respect for ya Ed, but not when you mess with 25SSR. I have recently been getting my butt kicked in 25 and I am really excited about that, because I get do some more work. The merc 25 was a dying class and you guys saved it with Yamatos, now leave it at that. As Dean has said all it needs is a bit more tweaking.

I wouldn't call the Busch series Nextel2!

Matt Gallagher
58J

[14-H]

25r

The Nextel guys don't put a restrictor in their engine and go race the Busch series. Not a good comparison. The restrictors were added to the yamatos to save the class as the primary reason. We do not need duplicitous classes. If the Merc guys are not going to race, there is no need for the class. I am as serious as a heart attack about this concept for the 25SSR class. I appreciate the offer from Mike regarding the Grass Lake testing and would be interested in the results, but they will not change my mind: the Yamatos are too fast! Ed.

Add: By the way, Matt, if you are in agreement that some tweaking is needed, then we really are not at odds in this discussion. Ed.

[MGallagher]

No comparison was being made, just a point about the amount of work that is put into both. I just don't appreiciate your negetivity towards the Yamatos. Your roll call response at the nationals led me to beleive you were a bit byass, with favor towards the Mercury. If so, you should be a bit more pro-active as a chairman, thats all. Now I know I chose to debate the wrong person, but I am for change and I will meet Mike at Grass Lake to help(spy) with the testing.

Matt Gallagher
58J

[dholt]

Curious

Curious to know the answer to two things:

1. By introducing the Yamato to 25SSR, how was that going to revive the class and get more Mercs on the course to run 25SSR? They had stopped running the class when they were the only motor allowed. There must have been a good reason for that. In 1998, there were 15 drivers who competed in 25SSR.

2. If the Yamato is slowed a little, where will these "mystery" Mercs come from that weren't around 5-6 years ago? Mercury Marine isn't building any new ones. Will 20-30 guys all of the sudden realize they have one in their garage??


Point is this. The class was dead...it's still dead in terms of Mercury participation. If guys wanted to run it, then the Yamato wouldn't have been needed in the first place. Do we really think an explosion of Mercs is just waiting to happen??? GET REAL!

Now, if you want to slow the Yamato to make it completely equal to the 10 Mercs that might race, that's a good move. Gives the 20ci Hot Rod somewhere to go too.

Mike Ross, kudos to you for offering to do some real life testing and figure this mess out.

Dana

[nightmoves]

Re-classsification

This class is just going to keep growing at this point and not because of the Mercury, because of Yamato. Outboard racing would not be even close to the numbers it is today because of Yamato and the more opportunities you give them to run the better.
Maybe this should become the new B class due to a few basic facts of motor availability, parts availability and all around durability. They always leave the beach and come back on their own power and usually put on a good show inbetween.
As a weight standpoint I wont run CSR because of 60 lbs a lead I have to put in it to be legal, and forget it if I get to inspection to get a lift. The 25 class with a Yamato has opened alot of doors for people to race the stocks and I dont think that the drivers will let it go away that easily from people who dont run the class to quote someone "If you dont run the class you dont have an opinion on this".
Now as for the Merc restricter, pull it and see what happens.

Yup , thats my opinion!

[fitsracing]

Does anyone know what duplicitous means??

[csh12M]

Grass Lake Test

Hello Ed and all concerned,

Mikey just got off the phone with me. I think this is a fair position.....we are going to take out Deweys rig for testing. We will start in the current configuration. Lower it to one inch and then lower it to 1 3/8. Then go back to 3/4 and try both restrictors. Then try and tweak weight with 20lbs increments. We will carry multiple GPS and I will hook of my digatron datalogger for Tach curves. This should give us the data to make a fair decision.

Mike is right about one thing though ED, Rhodes would go faster in a side fin boat. Nothing says the Merc. 25SSR has to be roll ups. I am sure Dave Dewald would have E.T. faster also. I think you even owned a side fin Merc. boat, so you must of thought the same thing. I would go so far as to say Darrell might have won at Copporoplis if he had a side fin boat. That said I do think you need to knock a small amount off of the Yamato to make it even.

Later,
12

[14-H]

Grass Lake Test

Let me know when this takes place. I'd be interested in coming over to watch. Ed.

[17W]

Side Fin 25 Merc Boat...

I have been monitoring the thread & have not chimed in yet. I am pretty sure Ed has a side fin 25SSR rig. Don't you Ed? Bring it w/you.

When ever the "Test & Development" Day takes place I would like to be present. Some of our schedules are more flexible than others... When does it look like the test will happen? Before we know it the weather is gonna turn on us!

Brent

[csh12M]

Yamato test day

We are going to go in the first two weeks of October. However, we were probably going to take a day off work and go during the week. Mike or I will keep you posted.

Thanks,
Dean

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

Thank you all for your help with the 25 runabout class. You guys are the reason that this sport survives! Taking off work to go testing!?! This is why I love this sport! Call on me for any help you need.
If you guys find a way to make my 25 runabout engine competitive then you have just earned another runabout driver. I will head to the garage and build a boat the instant I hear of a change. Until then it will sit and collect dust and hope my hydro engine blows up so it can leave the trailer!'
At the end of the merc challenge Dana, there were 90 25 runabouts. Those engines are out there somewhere. If the class looks fun and is no longer a yamato boat show then maybe we will get a few back.
Once the hotrod's become manufactured again this class might explode with participation. I can only hope, we need more runabouts and the men with enough sack to race in Indian River.

[MRIRACER]

What a Deal!!!

My Thanks to all drivers who have posted on this....wasn't sure what the response would be...this is too cool. To those who say kill the class (25ssr) I say Kiss my u know what. The 25 merc is the best ride I ever had (this is Roger A by the way) I plan on coming back next year (even if only for a few races...prob moving to Cali and no 25ssr there) and it will be in a 25 boat. I ran w/AOF for about 7 years and I was the only guy rolling up..everybody else had a turn fin...don't know how they did it, cause my austin was set to roll up. Point is I guess that can be done. Anyway Mike Ross..make sure you get ahold of my bro for testing day and if I'm not in Cali I'll be there to lift and tote!! Lets get some Data, see what needs to be done. My own opinion is still pull the plate (no plate in AOF/by the way I ran 25ssh too). Also whoever said that no 25 motors would come out of the garages....just U wait..they are out there...bunches of mercs/mariners down south...lots up here too, hell I even heard of one thats still in the **** box!!! Thanks again guys lets get this done and go RACE.....

Roger A ??M
Team Casual

[John Broge]

I agree with Mike Ross about the Mercury guys not putting as much into the class as they should/need to. But back to Mike's question about what to do with the class to keep it growing and not just another place to run Yamatos: Open the class up to more engines. Make every 25 hp stock powerhead legal and let's get some experimentation going on (gearfoot/ towerhousing developement). Quit trying to make the playing field absolutely even and just slow the superfast engines down when they start to dominate. Should the Yamato's be slowed in some fashion right now? After seeing Brian Rhodes at Grass Lake I'd say just wait a bit and see if any other Merc's or Hot Rods can bring up the pace.