25SSR Record Smashed

[MGallagher]

Well, while I'm sitting here discussing with my other half our schedule, I am figuring that I most likely would be able to make it out Mid-week to Grass Lake. Keep me posted on the date, and what if anything, you guys might want me to bring. Just want to help, anyway I can.

One stupid question, does the type of Yamato matter?

Thanks,
Matt Gallagher
58J

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

apples/oranges

Hey fellas aren't loopers rite off da batt 20% more de hp????
If there is something this old man is missin.

[craig murden]

I disagree with Mike: the 25SSR class should be eliminated if all it will be is a second CSR class. The Yamatos were legalized for the purpose of giving the Mercs and the Hot Rods people to play with AND as a potential second class for the guys with Yamatos. If we can't fulfill BOTH reasons, the class should be eliminated. Then the guys with the Mercs and Hot Rods can run BMR. The 25SSR is a great experiment, but let's not lose the Merc guys. My solution: 1-3/8 for everybody. If that's too much of a restriction for the Yamatos, pull the restrictors and give 'em the punch back. But put everyone at 1-3/8". 14-H.

ADD: By the way, if I were the 25SSH guys, I'd oppose like hell the introduction of another motor based upon the track record in 25SSR.

Re the 25SSR dialog: The Hot Rod is getting only marginal mention here. There may well be more 20c.i. Hot Rods out there than the Merc. Parity might just bring some of us out with more regularity.

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

20 cu. in. key word

20ci not looped charged 24.++ being wat i hear is apples anyou no wat.
Make em equal

[mike ross]

Just a quick reference. At grass lake a couple of weeks ago Dewey and Brian got to go at it again. Brian ran the Merc on a much smaller coarse and Dewey ran the side fin Yamato. (same rig that won at New York) They swapped heats and Dewey won by 8 tenths of a second. When each one broke out front they pulled away and distanced the lead on one another. This race coarse was set up with much smaller turns and Brian was able to keep his rig on the pins were Dewey was slidding out of the turns. But as John Brodge indicatded they were very evenly paired. So now we have 2 of the best rigs running and results the same as the nationals. I Have had a chance to test with Andy Butterfield who has another 25 Merc that runs well. We found his speeds to be a litttle faster than the Yamato. He also had more exceleration off the corners than our restricted Yamato. I think we should give the Mercury guys the bump up. This may spur more of them to get out and give it a go. Until we have the Mercury guys doing this it is hard for the commision to make the right changes. Right now they see the Yamatos doing well and it makes them think to slow them down. We have proof this year that the Mercury can and did win some of the very best races against the the cream of the crop Yamato teams. I would hate to put the amount of hours the Yamato teams have spent developing there rigs. And if the Mercury teams had as many hours into the development of that power plant I know this issue might have a differnt spin. Any of you Mercury guys reading this post need to give Brian Rhodes a call and find out what he thinks. He is a boat builder and I'm sure is going to have something new next year. He lives in Wisconsin and it's the home of Mercury. Lets get the Mercury team back in full force. We have great people in APBA from the VP, commision, boat builders, propbuilders, and all the the racers who will strive to keep the racing competative. Can't wait to report back with the results of the testing. You Mercury guys!!! WE LOVE YOU MAN Mike

[Tim Weber]

I would be willing to appease the Merc guys by running 1 3/8 deep as Ed mentioned without the restrictor any day. Give me the punch! That would seal
the deal on Yamatos being faster than a Merc in a straight line but look out in the turns Merc guys. When you get behind one of our barges you got real trouble. A 302 punches real good. A restricted 302 is a pig. I would bet the ET on the course with the lower height for the Yamato would be better than it is now.

Here's what I have found with the restricted 302. My rig is about 2 slower than my C rig. I have also played with height. I lose about 1/2 mph at 1"
depth vs 3/4" and about 1 mph at 1 1/4" depth.

I have even run races at 1" depth and in race conditions its not a bad deal as the extra 1/4" depth eliminates a lot of prop slip problems, especially with cleavers. Try it on a bumpy day.

I have found height not be as big of an issue because the Yamato gear case is a club. I have found prop selection a lot more critical with the 25 because I lose the ability to pull as stiff a wheel as the C rig.

I think Mike will find this out too at Grass Lake.

What's the solution? It's racing, there isn't one that is going to make everyone
happy!

Tim

[ryan_4z]

Dewald's ten-year-old record is gone: smashed by over a mile-an-hour by a Yamato. "We have seen the blasphemy! What need have we in further witnesses?" 14-H

Actually it was a 15 year old record. This shouldn't come as a surprise to any of us. Any good Merc should be able to beat Dewald's record. Granted he was one of the greatest, if not the best, small runabout driver ever. And certainly the most successful. But classes evolve. I don't for one minute believe that 25ssR technology peaked in 1989. And if it did, then that only goes to show that the Merc guys haven't done there homework. Because after 15 years of work, I would expect any class to gain 1 mph.

[jpro60]

This Is Mike Perman Please read this post

Hey,
This is Mike Perman the kid who broke a record almost as old as I am. First off, I would like to thank all of the people who congratulated me. Next, To those of you who say something needs to be done, I understand where you're coming from. However, the 20ss restrictor idea I saw posted I find a little drastic. I like the idea of perhaps un-restricting the Mercs. I would also like to say in Defense of the Yamato and of my record a few things.
1. We have a Very strong motor with less than 10 heats on it from the factory.
2. We had our set-up and equiptment combo dialed in.
3. The boat I set the record in is SO light on it's feet and hard to drive that the boat has put 4 different drivers on their heads. The boat has crashed 2 out of the 4 times it was run this year. And as it stood I set the record with the cockpit side broken out because the boat tried to spit me out in the first heat
Thanks for hearing me out,
Mike Perman 32-R

[sam]

I'd like to point out that there are still 3 25SSR records held by Mercs, it is not as if all 25SSR records are now held by Yamatos.

Has a Merc won a mixed heat at the Nationals in the past 3 or 4 years?

If so, I don't see the need to make changes.....yet.

[ryan_4z]

Actually Sam a Merc won the first heat at the Nationals this year. And I believe that Vic Brinkman won a few years ago against some very good Yamatos. I believe that the big problem here is not speed, or engine parity. The problem is that we are trying to run 2 different classes at once. The Merc 25ssR is a small runabout class. The Yamato 25ssR is a big runabout class. Its like trying to race a B against a C. They are just 2 very different classes.

I also believe we are kidding ourselves if we think that the Merc is going to make a comeback. Ed, you are all for the introduction of new, in production motors, why not in this class? What should lead us to believe that these Merc 25s are gonna just come out of nowhere. The class was dying. And we are supposed to believe that the introduction of the Yamato is going to revive the Merc. The sooner we admit to ourselves that this class is what it is, CXSR, The sooner we can make a logical decision on the matter. If we decide that we dont want a second CSR class, then we scrap 25. Or we can admit that something good has come out of this. The restricted C has become a viable class. Just as competitive as CSR. It is a big runabout class for smaller drivers.

[14-H]

32-r

Hey Mike: No need to defend your record. Your record is well-deserved! Congratulations again. 14-H.

[14-H]

I've got it!

How about we simply remove all side-fins from the 25SSR class? Leave the rest of the rules alone. Ed.

[ryan_4z]

How about we simply remove all side-fins from the 25SSR class? Leave the rest of the rules alone. Ed.

I like it Ed. Lets make this a real runabout class, like B is. I am currently not planning on racing 25 much anymore. But this would definetly make me reconsider. Rollup is the only way to go.

Congratulations Mike. You broke a record that was held by one of the best ever. Thats one hell of an accomplishment.

[Tim Weber]

You guys with little 10 foot boats complain about the big holes we leave behind with a sissy boat. Think twice before you make it a roll up only class.
Then you can drive through the waves from 12 ft roll up boats. Now that will be fun to watch.

Too few of the guys out there have driven big roll ups. Unless you have been in a field of DSR rollups, you don't know what rough is. Just ask Mike Ross or Ron Hill if you don't believe me. I ran one for 7 years in the 80's and there have been times when I fell in a hole while rolled up and could not see the boat next to me because of the depth of the hole.

So, I have a CSR roll up boat in moth balls. If you want me to dust it off, fine,
then you guys in toy boats can complain about that. I am sure Bowman and Burdick would love this.

Tim

[22W]

I knew sooner or later I would be brought into this. Let me start off by saying that if I had to pick a motor to run in this class it would have a shiny black cowling. Personally I wish that all runabouts would be roll up boats, but that is kind of a lost cause. I roll up my CSR because i am stubborn and broke, and because I think it is the most fun to be had with clothing on.

Now I would love to drive a fun light runabout class with enough poop to propel my less than svelt rear end around the race course. The problem is that the only thing scarier than going into the first turn at nationals behind six CSRs is going into that same turn behind the same six Yamatos in a itty bitty boat. And that is the only way the current Merc can be competitive. You can hear Rhode's manhood clank together when he walks, yet you saw what happened in that situation. My two cents would be to pull the restrictor first and let those of us with the Merc try to come up with a boat to handle the ocean laid out in front of us. Yes, by the time the Dewalds, Schaubs, and Austins had mastered 25 it had shrunk to the size of an A boat. Maybe if we had a little more acceleration to play with, it would let the boat design (size) become competitive with the Yamato. Honestly as I am sure you are aware Ed, I am all for getting rid of the 25 restrictor in both runabout and hydro. But lets give it a shot here first. (I do dearly love the roll up idea though!!!)