25SSR Record Smashed

[MGallagher]

What ever must be done, I will be there to help. Some Data aquasition(sp?) equipment would be perfect. Might be able to get some. I am really excited about this possibly coming to reality. I will be going to the National meeting on the J commitee, so maybe some J, AX, and A research would be good for this R&D weekend. I beleive it should be sanctioned as a test day only, not a race. Next step would be to solidify a venue for the event.

Also, this weekend could become annual and could be used for rookie testing. What I mean is I believe somethings are going to be proposed at the meeting about a certain amount of time in the boat and some kind of driving test before a new driver may enter a race. From there the driver would have to adhere to the same rookie rules that apply now.

Anyway, don't let that detour you from the topic at hand.

Matt Gallagher
58J

[Norm Schaub]

You might want to look at the restrictor plate in the 25XS engine if you want
to increase the performance for the Mercury.
Just a thought...

Norm

[14-H]

Testing, blah, blah, blah

Dewald's ten-year-old record is gone: smashed by over a mile-an-hour by a Yamato. "We have seen the blasphemy! What need have we in further witnesses?" 14-H

[csh12M]

Cmon......

I have to agree with Ed on that one. I do not know what better data we can get than the records.....If we line them up next to each other and drag race across the lake we will find top speed and accelleration, but what really counts is E.T. Ed is right DAVID DEWALD record just got beat by 1MPH that translates to roughly 250 feet in three laps. Did anyone ever see David Dewald get beat by 250 feet from an even start..... the 3/4 record was beat at Dayton by 1mph....these are E.T. How can you say this is not good enough testing? What more do you want... I know you guys have your Yamatos running well but cmon it is time to tweak it....not kill it but tweak it. If you want to do some testing on an R&D day the testing should be what is the tweak (lower height, add weight) not wether or not it should be tweaked...that part is obvious.

Later
12

[MGallagher]

It is nice to see people are so "Gung Ho" about this!

Matt Gallagher
58J

[MRIRACER]

Thanks for noticing

Hey Steve thanks for noticing the Mercs in the Pits at Grass Lake!!! and guess what thats where they'll stay untill the playing field is evened out. I have personally talked w/those guys and they would run short course if things were different.This class WILL explode w/black tops with the minor adjudtment of pulling the restrictor from the Merc. Our testing data has showed the boat is stable at 1 3/8 , has more punch and acceleration thru the turns...which is what the mercs need. Why not do this for 1 yr...we already know the Yamatos are fast and are dialed in. Give the Mercs a chance to win...anybody know of a merc thats won consistently in the last 3 yrs????

Mike/Roger Affholter
Team Casual

PS When plate is pulled need to go a 90 or 92 jet. Roger ran a 92 when he was running w/AOF boys

[csh12M]

Three motors

Dont forget Roger their are three motors in this class. Yamato, Merc, and Hot Rod.....Hot Rod and Merc are pretty equal. Pulling the restrictor out of the Merc. would leave the Hot Rod in the back of the pack. The idea of this class was to see if the SORC could handicap three motors fairly. So far we have done a good job, but now we need to tweak down the Yamato a tich.....what is the best way to do that? This is what needs to be tested.

Later,
12

[SunRiseRacing]

Just a little food for thought!

If the restricted 302 is sooooo much faster than the Merc, then why isn't it a legal motor for 25ssH. The only answer that I've heard is that the 302 can't compete with the Merc. I personally don't know that much about the Merc, but I've been told by Ed Runne, who I believe knows a thing or 3, that with a little work that the Merc can blow the doors off the 302.

One thing that everyone CAN agree on is that we need to grow as a sport and get new drivers on the water. I believe that the new Hot Rod is the greatest thing since slice bread. It has the potential to truely regenerate Outboard racing as a whole. BUT, until that happens we need to use the motors that are available, and we can find parts for. If I'm wrong and the Merc can't compete with the 302, then slow it down a little. A little slower isn't going to hurt anything. I've been racing alittle over a year and started in CSH and having a blast, but the most fun I've had was throwing a restrictor in and running 20ssh. I'm right at weight in CSH and 40lbs over in 20ssh, I would love to have something inbetween the two. I've even though about getting a Merc for 25ssh, but there's not enough for the class. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has thought about this. I'm willing to bet that if the 302 was legal, you would see more people running the class and that guys with Merc would be on the water too.

Just my 2 opinion! You know the saying about those.

Does ANYONE know WHY the 302 isn't legal for 25SSH?

[MRIRACER]

OOPSY forgot about the Hot Rod...my bad

I forgot about the Hot Rod.....my oopsy......sorry to those w/Hot Rod motors and Boats, didn't mean to exclude ya.....anybody whose running Hot Rod care to chime in this disscussion!!

Roger ??M

[fitsracing]

Just from what I've read here it sounds like everyone wants some type of modified C- stock or a C2-stock class. If the class can't stand by itself maybe its time for it to go away. Just a thought.

[farley street]

I agree with Jeff Brewster !

I broke Jeff Hutchin's 25 ss hydro kilo record that was set back in "89 I think? We did it with a real mercury and no restricted yamatos on a "74 Karelson and a motor with 16/21 gears! Yes thats right a kilo record w/ 16/21 gears!

Why is it so amazing that the 25 runabout record has been broken? Dewald's record should have been frozen. That was the real record for 25ssr! This class is a joke. I do not mean disrespect to Mike Perman or anyone that races this with a restricted yamato. He has followed APBA's rules for the class and should be commended. I would have thought we had learned something from C2H, but now we have to deal with C2R every weekend. Slow the yamatos down this winter if you want to make it a class for everyone. Not just another CSR class with Vic Brinkman the only one to be able to beat them on a good day. I dont know how to make the changes, but I sure hope someone sacks it up and does it. Just my opinion, go ahead and jump on me!

[mike ross]

If you let the hydro drivers run a restricted Yamato they would get beat bad. That is why we need to get the runabouts with a merc out there and develope them. Let them take the restrictor out for a year. Its way easier to have a few Merc guys change for more performance than it would be for all the Yamato guys to change. I think Ed Runne is probably one of the most knowledgeable motor man and has been around thru all the motor changes. And I with him on the Merc potential. We will have a hole new animal to tame when those hot rods are available. Mike

[csh12M]

Mikey I have to respectly disagree....the reason it is not competitive on the Hydro is the height restriction is the bottom of the boat. They swing a much bigger prop. I have raced 25SSH and I race CSH 2522H goes in the 70,s my CSH goes 68 or so.

The whole reason we kept 25SSR alive was to try this experiment. To see if we could handicap several motors in a class. Their were only 4 people racing it when we did this. I am starting to wish we would have let it die because I do not think we can handicap it. To many people want to protect their ride...

I know it would be easier to change the Merc. and I know that their really is only one Hot Rod out their. However, that is not the point of this experiment. The point was can we keep three motors the same.....if we can not do a small tweak to the Yamato to know off some punch or .5 MPH then we have failed, and should get rid of the class altogether. The good restricted Yamato with a light driver E.T. the same as the CSR now.....people are right we are ending up with C2R.....

Later,
12

[jsilvestri]

I posted this earlier in the thread, but what restrictor plate does the Yamato use currently and how about trying the 1/2" resctrictor that is required to run the Yamato in the 20ssH class.

[mike ross]

Here is my thinking Dean. We have a ton of Yamato drivers who enjoy having the extra class to run. The clubs bennifit from having extra entries. The propbuilders bennifit from selling different props to accomidate the restricted engine. The compitition was better in the 25 this year than the CSR.( this is why we go to the races ) If you are a light guy in CSR you need to add a ton of lead. Jason Thomson needed 50 some pounds to make CSR weight. Rob Wilkens stopped running CSR due to this amount of weight having to be added and is very compeitive in the current configuration. Dewey needs over 20 lbs currently and he isn't a little guy. So we try to make the Yamato slower somehow. Aren't we hurting the group who kept this class alive along with all the other good things it has creatated so far. I agree with you that we should have let it die as we have to many classes already. But we didn't and the result of what we did has been great for a lot of people and boat racing in general. Lets face it unless people go out and by a new Mercury from Dave Scott this classes growth is going to dictated by where someone can get the motor the eaisiest. So try to change the class so it does't effect all the good things we have created so far. If the Mercury guys want to run unrestricted and that gets it more even then that is the easiest solution. They all seem to think this will work. If they do better than we should see the Mercury grow. When a Mercury wins a final heat at the nationals and has won this class in previuos years. I don't see why we say that it is not competitive. I would love to see the Mercurys in full force again. But until we see that lets keep the majority as happy as we can due the benifits it currently has brought us in all areas. As far as the records I feel the record was broken due to the design change that a turn fin runabout has over a roll up boat. This is also one of the reasons the Yamatos do well at the Nationals is the large coarse is in there advantage . When you can keep up your speed you are going to ET the course faster. David set it in a roll up 25SSR. CSR was once a roll up class and as soon as John Puestue bought out his turn fin SeaJay he changed CSR to what it is today.
Just my opinion!!!! Mike