SideWinder Comparison?

[AZ Outlaw]

I know that Jean Mackay-Schwartz and Dan, along with Tony Lombardo, Steve and Pam Wilde should have some good test data.......
I'm sure anyone of them would be more than willing to share their info with Commissioners.

[reed28n]

Legalize the motors

The Sidewinder A has been out there racing. I think by legalizing it with a responsible parity commitee, you will encourage the procurement of more motors and you will see the drivers get their rigs altered to go racing. If the motor is probationary again you will discourage many people from buying.

The 20 cubic in motor should be legal this season in the same places the 20 cubic inch Hot Rod is legal. 25SSH and B Runabout(25SSR) this is a class that needs a little boost of participation in some regions and in other Regions I believe you will see the sidewinder be the only motor in the class. i could see Region 10 jump on a new class with new motors available the same way they are running the 302 and the Tohatsu.

With this availabilty Sidewinder sells motors and we get them out there with an opportunity to see more motors race.

Leave the sidewinder as probationary in the 20SSH. Let time tell since we have 302's available for the class as production motors and the popularity of the class is still strong. This would give us another year to see where the 20 CID stacks up in the two hydro classes an give it the best fit.

[drbyrne55]

Leave the sidewinder as probationary in the 20SSH. Let time tell since we have 302's available for the class as production motors and the popularity of the class is still strong. This would give us another year to see where the 20 CID stacks up in the two hydro classes an give it the best fit.

I would think leaving the 20SW just probationary in 20SSH might really hurt 20ci sales?

[mercguy]

how about this.......

I would think leaving the 20SW just probationary in 20SSH might really hurt 20ci sales?

why not leave the motor out of the 20SSH class???????? Do you think that people will buy the $4500 Sidewinder over the $2200 Yamato 302 (restricted)???????? How about lets concentrate on 1 Sidewinder at a time and get it all dialed in and ready, before another version is put on the market, of which there is a lack of testing data provided (from what I hear the 20 Sidewinder is not even close to the old 20 Hot Rod?). I highly doubt the Sidewinder Co. has to worry about their motors being approved for use in stock outboard, so why not just get them dialed in BEFORE they are legalized, because they will eventually be legalized...........

PS: Scott says Reg10 will jump on the new class..................I HIGHLY doubt it, especially since the 302's are in our back yard...............just as is the Tohatsu............economics will determine the outcome.........

[pav225]

The Sidewinder A has been out there racing. I think by legalizing it with a responsible parity commitee, you will encourage the procurement of more motors and you will see the drivers get their rigs altered to go racing. If the motor is probationary again you will discourage many people from buying.

The 20 cubic in motor should be legal this season in the same places the 20 cubic inch Hot Rod is legal. 25SSH and B Runabout(25SSR) this is a class that needs a little boost of participation in some regions and in other Regions I believe you will see the sidewinder be the only motor in the class. i could see Region 10 jump on a new class with new motors available the same way they are running the 302 and the Tohatsu.

With this availabilty Sidewinder sells motors and we get them out there with an opportunity to see more motors race.

Leave the sidewinder as probationary in the 20SSH. Let time tell since we have 302's available for the class as production motors and the popularity of the class is still strong. This would give us another year to see where the 20 CID stacks up in the two hydro classes an give it the best fit.

Scott,
I struggle with the blanket statement of "legalizing" motors without test data. Why not develop a test plan and then provide the SORC and parity committee with data to make informed decisions?

I think the good people at SideWinder will sell a lot more motors if the racing community is more informed with actual test results.

- Mike

[reed28n]

Test Data

Scott,
I struggle with the blanket statement of "legalizing" motors without test data. Why not develop a test plan and then provide the SORC and parity committee with data to make informed decisions?

I think the good people at SideWinder will sell a lot more motors if the racing community is more informed with actual test results.

- Mike

The issue with test data as I see it is the recreational time we all have. I feel the reason so many projects that have been started by the SORC (or any category for that matter) and have failed is we do not have the free time to sustain the effort to follow through. We leave the testing up to a small group that can slow our timeline.

We are very good a bending things as volunteers, but we do not have proven track record of making things. We need obtainable sustainable goals. We have a wealth of ideas and we always bite off more than we can accomplish. Someone moves, has a baby, loses their job and that volunteer has to put boat racing on the back burner and that thing they volunteered for at the Natonal meeting goes behind that.

By allowing the motors to race we allow the SORC to look at real racing data and bend the performance by working with Racing Outboard. The A version has already sold motors and we are getting more data by having them race then we would by setting it up in a lab, we have already seen different boat designs and multiple props and drivers. We will have a better chance to get a consensus vote for changes in the class by having it seen across more Regions racing.

The 20 motor will help two classes that are weak in most Regions. 25SSH races in Regions 1,6,7.......and the BSR (25SSR) will get a boost in numbers by the use of the 20 running with existing motors.

I do not endorse legalize the motor in the 20SSH class let it stay probationary. Race it the 25SSH class where the hurdle is higher, the speed range is higher. This gets motors on the water and we can get real race course readings.

Racing it should be our test data. We will not see the true potential of any racing equipment until we get it out to a broad number of people.

If the 302 was left to only a few who tested the motor against their 102 it would never have been legalized. Drivers took their exisitng boats cut the transom down dropped the motor on with their exisitng prop and it was slower. It appeared to be too much work for the guy that had a good 102 to start over. Once 102's were not as easily accessible or the 302 was easier to get for new drivers they started to get on the water. Very few 102 owners were willing to trade for the 302. But through racing we have seen the 302 rise to be in many people's opinion equal to the 102 on many courses. It just wouldn't have gotten there with out racing it and tweaking a couple rules.

So legalizing the Sidewinder will give us that same opportunity and the Lyons share of the testing will be on the weekend, traveling to your regions events and racing to see where we are and where we need to be.

[reed28n]

20 Cubic inch Hot Rod or Sidewinder

PS: Scott says Reg10 will jump on the new class..................I HIGHLY doubt it, especially since the 302's are in our back yard...............just as is the Tohatsu............economics will determine the outcome.........

I wouldn't be surprised, you have drivers in your Region getting into the CSR and 25SSR class, once they see the 20 cu in anything on a smaller boat.......and the ride they get???? you will see them sooner then you think.

The 302 and Tohatsu are in your backyard at $2200 plus tweaks and $6500, the sidewinder is smack dap in the middle......and the lead time is very very good.

To me Region 10 is where its at right now!

Anyone will tell you, the 20 cubic inch Hot rod when it stayed together was the best ride in the sport. When Sidewinder adds durability to that equation you will have very very happy drivers.

[Team B&H]

Don't hand us the crap that when the 302 was tested first by the Goller establishment that they reported back that it was slower. The opposite was true and they said it was faster- hence it was not initially approved for CSH but only the CSH-2 class and the wonderful SORC then let the faster 102 race in that class so the 102 guys had 2 classes to win. They only let the 302 in the CSH class and eliminated the CSH-2 class after a couple years when it was determined that the 302 wasn't a real risk for the 102 establishment.

[drbyrne55]

Thanks Sam, you always tell " the rest of the story".



1. Or to increase sales for RO, maybe legalize all 3 classes and have parity committee to monitor the motors and make immediate changes if needed. Having 1 or 2 legal classes may not produce enough sells for Racing Outboards and you can only feed a dead fish so long.

2. Probationary status doesn't cut it for some owners and will hurt sales.

3. With a 100lb boat and the 65lb Sidewinder a big guy well over 200lb can race 20SSH.

4. Sounds like to currently available 302 restricted and the SW20 20SSH should run well together and the best 80 may still have 1-mph on both.

[dwilderacer]

My Exp

I have run our sidewinder on hydro and runabout, and here is what I have learned:

1. Dad loves the five pounds that it saves over the OMC, he's back down to weight!

2. It is no faster than a top notch OMC, just more punchy.

3. On the runabout it feels great. Playful like a 15, not the wet rag a OMC could feel like.

4. Still haven't even tried to start it by myself, sitting in the water. Takes a pit crew.

That much said, I encourage everyone to try one out, it handles like a dream and is a true kick in the pants.

[Andrew 4CE]

Thanks to the Runne's we tried one in ASR at Kingston NH... Graham was in the boat I held the boat. He started it no problem by himself in the water. No diff than an OMC. I think he took second or third on the race course... was right in the mix. Motor looks awesome and sounds nice.

[reed28n]

Crap

Don't hand us the crap that when the 302 was tested first by the Goller establishment that they reported back that it was slower. The opposite was true and they said it was faster- hence it was not initially approved for CSH but only the CSH-2 class and the wonderful SORC then let the faster 102 race in that class so the 102 guys had 2 classes to win. They only let the 302 in the CSH class and eliminated the CSH-2 class after a couple years when it was determined that the 302 wasn't a real risk for the 102 establishment.

I am not trying to hand out any crap. Your perception or recall may be better than mine for C2 Hydro. I will let you give the hisotry lesson on crap.

Let's not travel that same path that the SORC traveled with the 302, let's get the motors on the water and let guys like you do the testing!
Then there won't be any crap.

[drbyrne55]

I am not trying to hand out any crap. Your perception or recall may be better than mine for C2 Hydro. I will let you give the hisotry lesson on crap.

Let's not travel that same path that the SORC traveled with the 302, let's get the motors on the water and let guys like you do the testing!
Then there won't be any crap.

Scott,
For less experienced, please tell us, does someone need to present a "proposal" at the meeting to legalized the 20 in 20SSH and address the parity issue within the same proposal?

Although you don't want the SW20 legalized in 20SSH, we would like it added "legally" to the mix. Running it against 2 record holding Region 10 restricted 302's should make for good testing for parity.

[Cameraboy]

Let's get them on the water and legal for 2010. The people have spoken that they want the market to decide, so let's get to it. This is the easy part - why keep twiddling our thumbs?

Waiting until Winternationals to do side-by-side testing just delays the decision another year. The sooner we get to the inevitable war over parity, the better. That's the hard part, that's where the data is important.

I like the challenge Scott has thrown down to Region 10, especially on 20ss (I go further then he and say make the Sidewinder legal there). This region made the resticted 302 work, I have no doubt we can figure the 20 Sidewinder out first.

Make the Sidewinders legal in all classes in 2010.

[reed28n]

National Meeting

Scott,
For less experienced, please tell us, does someone need to present a "proposal" at the meeting to legalized the 20 in 20SSH and address the parity issue within the same proposal?

Although you don't want the SW20 legalized in 20SSH, we would like it added "legally" to the mix. Running it against 2 record holding Region 10 restricted 302's should make for good testing for parity.

Get what you want, as a member, to your commissioner or any other Region's commissiner for that matter. Write a follow up letter to the SORC Commission Chairman requesting that your proposal be put on the agenda for dicussion. The chairman will put it on the agenda and request a motion to discuss the issue. If no motoion is made there will be no discussion or vote and they will move on to other issues. (Roberts rules of order.....)

My 20SSH statement was my opinion.