2010 SORC and Chairman

[Kev43V]

Scott
I talked to literally hundreds of people this year that had at least some interest in entering into our sport. Not one of them thought that taking the Merc A out of A (although I made it perfectly clear that it is not competitive in A) would help them enter into the sport if they were looking at J for their kids and A for themselves. SOME thought they would rather get the Merc so as their kid gained skills they could be competitive and they(parent) could go for rides in A with the same motor. the other half felt they would rather try to find a good omc so they could have a shot at being competitive while the kid gained experience running the slower (for J) OMC. If the sidewinder is not approved for A, it really doesn't enter into the equation UNTIL it is approved for points.
IMHO
stock cars,motocross etc. Part of the BIG draw there is that everyone has a place to race every single weekend of the season within 20-60 miles of their home. while we travel hundreds of miles for many of our races. of the people i talk to in my neck of the woods (or corn field) that is the absolute biggest drawback to our sport

[jeff55v]

Stock Outboard

It seems awefully wrong to be in the position to be forced to tell a new racer, that in order to be competitive in a particular class, they have to buy a 20+ year old motor that is no longer in production. (besides vintage and nostalgia classes, naturally) Quite the opposite should be the norm. "If you want to be competitive, you need to buy this shiny new engine."

I don't understand Stock Outboard. And I've given up trying.

[pav225]

It seems awefully wrong to be in the position to be forced to tell a new racer, that in order to be competitive in a particular class, they have to buy a 20+ year old motor that is no longer in production. (besides vintage and nostalgia classes, naturally) Quite the opposite should be the norm. "If you want to be competitive, you need to buy this shiny new engine."

I don't understand Stock Outboard. And I've given up trying.

What am I missing???
You can buy a new Merc for J
You can buy a new Merc for AXS
You can buy a new SideWinder for B
You can buy a new Yamato for 20ssH
You can buy a new Yamato for CSH
You can buy a new Tohatsu for D

[Charlie Pater]

Per Scott Reed
"If you watched Joe Pater's amazing accomplishment this year winning his well deserved Nationals you saw a man that arguably tests his equipment more often and more scientifically than anyone in the country. He earned his way into the Hall of champions with hard work. He ran one motor on the back of both boats. CSH and CSR. Is that because Joe's inventory was low or because that motor was the best of the best. The one motor after years of testing has proven to be his best. On the tach, on the GPS and on the race course. Oh yeah his #2 wasn't bad in CSH on the Bud boat.

Introduce a new motor and we all have the same opportunity to have the same starting point."

Scott - You do a disservice to the boat racing community with the above statement. I believe you are completely off base. Joe's winning was not just his motor. It was the complete race rig and his very good driving ability. There are many motors out there that will compete with Joe's. Joe wins because he shows up to a race with an outfit that is set up for that day's conditions. The boat, motor, propeller, and his mental condition are set to race. It is that plain and simple. If you spent the time and energy on your equipment and mental conditioning that Joe spends on his, then you could accomplish the same.

[reed28n]

One piece

Per Scott Reed
"If you watched Joe Pater's amazing accomplishment this year winning his well deserved Nationals you saw a man that arguably tests his equipment more often and more scientifically than anyone in the country. He earned his way into the Hall of champions with hard work. He ran one motor on the back of both boats. CSH and CSR. Is that because Joe's inventory was low or because that motor was the best of the best. The one motor after years of testing has proven to be his best. On the tach, on the GPS and on the race course. Oh yeah his #2 wasn't bad in CSH on the Bud boat.

Introduce a new motor and we all have the same opportunity to have the same starting point."

Scott - You do a disservice to the boat racing community with the above statement. I believe you are completely off base. Joe's winning was not just his motor. It was the complete race rig and his very good driving ability. There are many motors out there that will compete with Joe's. Joe wins because he shows up to a race with an outfit that is set up for that day's conditions. The boat, motor, propeller, and his mental condition are set to race. It is that plain and simple. If you spent the time and energy on your equipment and mental conditioning that Joe spends on his, then you could accomplish the same.

Charlie as a long time racer I recognize that it is the whole package including the driver. Not to mention the starts and the driving...... I am only comlimenting Joe and his accomplishment.

Disservice? New motors help to close the gap. If we allow old motors to continue to be our only option the difference between the top runners and the guys that cannot get parts, cannot find multiple powerheads, does not have the time to test multiple powerheads.......the new motors will help these folks.

I am only endorsing giving people a better chance to enjoy success. Ultimately it is up to the racer to get better and go faster through time and commitment.

[reed28n]

Hundreds? We are only hundreds.

Scott
I talked to literally hundreds of people this year that had at least some interest in entering into our sport. Not one of them thought that taking the Merc A out of A (although I made it perfectly clear that it is not competitive in A) would help them enter into the sport if they were looking at J for their kids and A for themselves. SOME thought they would rather get the Merc so as their kid gained skills they could be competitive and they(parent) could go for rides in A with the same motor. the other half felt they would rather try to find a good omc so they could have a shot at being competitive while the kid gained experience running the slower (for J) OMC. If the sidewinder is not approved for A, it really doesn't enter into the equation UNTIL it is approved for points.
IMHO
stock cars,motocross etc. Part of the BIG draw there is that everyone has a place to race every single weekend of the season within 20-60 miles of their home. while we travel hundreds of miles for many of our races. of the people i talk to in my neck of the woods (or corn field) that is the absolute biggest drawback to our sport

Why is everyone willing to dismiss the fact that you can already race the motor in two classes. How many classes do you want for one motor?

Lets just restrict the 302 and run it in the A class....let's really confuse people who want to come and race.

You have to admit that a new driver buying used equipment is handicapped. They are not going to get anyone's #1 rig.....

[26V]

What am I missing???
You can buy a new Merc for J
You can buy a new Merc for AXS
You can buy a new SideWinder for B
You can buy a new Yamato for 20ssH
You can buy a new Yamato for CSH
You can buy a new Tohatsu for D

Where is the A class Mike? OMC (25yrs young) or a non competitive Merc ( at least at the national level)
New SideWinder for 15ss yes B no

OBTW Happy Holidays!!!

[Dave M]

Wow

It sounds like there is a big split in stock. You have about half on one side of the fence wanting to eliminate all the old engines and only go with the new available engines. This appears to be the right coast. On the left coast it seems they want the old engines to stay around and also allow the new engines in.

It is getting interesting here in the middle, I have the popcorn popped.

[Kev43V]

Scott
Yes I spoke with hundreds of non racers about our sport this year. I am sorry if I gave the impression that I had the Above conversation with all of them . I did not. BUT it did come up with many of them. I will also state that had I only attended Stock and Mod races with the booth, the numbers would have been much lower. The volume of spectators coming to ask questions at Kankakee was nothing short of amazing. I personaly suspect that seeing little affordable J boats go out on the water. After watching the normal OPC classes run added greatly to those numbers. that is based on the number of people that said something to the effect of - WOW, now this is something even I could probably afford to do.

[Racerkyle20]

Why is everyone willing to dismiss the fact that you can already race the motor in two classes. How many classes do you want for one motor?
B]

Personally i would get rid of the AX class...if the class is suppose to be a middle class for KIDS to race between J and A, Then why do we have 40 year olds running the class? You have merc AX motors running really well all over the country and the fastest rigs could beat some fast A stocks! Condence the number of 'A' classes, include merc, this would increase the number of participats in A stock. And i wouldn't have to watch the same kids race 3 different classses and scramble to make motor and restictor changes. This could only improve stock ouboard.

Oh and approve the sidewinders

[blueskyracer]

Personally i would get rid of the AX class...if the class is suppose to be a middle class for KIDS to race between J and A, Then why do we have 40 year olds running the class? You have merc AX motors running really well all over the country and the fastest rigs could beat some fast A stocks! Condence the number of 'A' classes, include merc, this would increase the number of participats in A stock. And i wouldn't have to watch the same kids race 3 different classses and scramble to make motor and restictor changes. This could only improve stock ouboard.

Oh and approve the sidewinders

Kyle, don't forget then they do it all over in a runabout. To me that adds up to 6 classes

[Charlie Pater]

Scott Said "Disservice? New motors help to close the gap. If we allow old motors to continue to be our only option the difference between the top runners and the guys that cannot get parts, cannot find multiple powerheads, does not have the time to test multiple powerheads.......the new motors will help these folks."

Scott - The FACT is there are new motors available for the 20ssh (now BSH class) and they are Yamato 302s. In addition to the motors being available, they are very cost competitive and perform consistently. I strongly believe that the Stock Outboard Commission should not take away from the Yamato supplier's long time investments by approving new motors from a different manufacturer in that class. Some time ago I submitted posts on Hydroracer on this subject and I believe those posts still apply today.

I recognize this whole discussion centers around Sidewinder motors and getting them into Stock Outboard. That issue needs to be addressed directly and not in a subversive manor that slowly pushes out the available and reliable Yamato motors. As I had said in previous posts, we need to find a place to the Sidewinder motors and that place should not be in classes in which we already have new motors available. The 20ssh class is one of the largest classes in SO - the class is not broken and has long term viability. Let’s keep it that way and find another solution for the Sidewinder 20 Cu. In.

[Tim Weber]

The reason boat racing is not big is simple, MONEY!

There is no money in the sport. We race for fun. We have no factory support at all. When stock was really big in the Mercury days, the factory actively supported the sport. Stock racing was started by Carl K to promote the sale of fishing motors. When that goal was achieved the factories pulled back.

Karting, motorcycles, jetskis, stock cars, all have factory involvement. Why not boats, it is simple economics. Everyone drives a car, almost everyone has a lawnmower and there are way more motorcycles than boats. Jetskis are still in the really neat faze and Yamaha, Seadoo, and Kawasaki are fighting for market share.

Other forms of motorsports have sponsor deals etc. We have nothing outside of a Champ, Unlimited and offshore. Those deals do nothing for the smaller classes. How do we fix it? I don't know! We have a lot of passionate people trying their best.

Tim

[swheeler]

In terms of factory involvement as it relates to stock outboard how many of the classes will use engines made by companys that market an engine to the general boating public? How many boat companies?
Competive fishing offers a better promotional value to these companies.

[Kev43V]

Scott
I would like to make one more thing clear. In you term as Stock Outboard Chair. You earned a tremendous amount of respect from me. Not because I agree with your positions (several I did not agree with) But for the straight foward, honest manner in which you did it. You were very clear in what you supported and why. That to me is priceless. You not only earned my respect but also my gratitude. The fact that you want what you believe is best for stock outboard is very apparent. Thank you.