Sit in boats....

[Graham 18ce]

Andrew found it and sent it to me...

Here is the Flyer ASH Capsule Boat.

[Dave Cofone]

Now that is a cool boat. And an A boat at that, problem is it is an enclosed cockpit. I don't want to get involved with an enclosed cockpit because then you need a restraint system and breathing air......extra money and weight.......but at least there is a proof of concept hydro out there......

[Team B&H]

There was a class in OPC for 25 XS Mercury motors. It was a tunnel design with the same motors used in 25 SS Stock Hydro. I was involved with 2 of them. Mine was a kneeler design with a 25XS powerhead mounted on the longer 25SS tower housing. That combination made trailer launching more feasible. The other was a sit-down model with a 25XS motor complete and power trim. Both rigs would plane with the small racing props that pushed them 62-63 mph. Speeds were similar for both but the one with trim would accelerate better. We ran them at the 1986 OPC Nationals at Kankakee.

And for those have not designed or driven a lay-down hydro, the driver has much more mobility fore and aft than people think. It becomes more tricky when the driver has to use his feet but some forethought and engineering will allow for that.

[MadProps]

Now that is a cool boat. And an A boat at that, problem is it is an enclosed cockpit. I don't want to get involved with an enclosed cockpit because then you need a restraint system and breathing air......extra money and weight.......but at least there is a proof of concept hydro out there......

I hear ya
I have a Hoffman 45SST tunnel but I cant run it by myself just for fun thats dangerous, thats why I want an open cockpit for fun, I have a 12ft STV style tunnel hull it looks like a mini Eliminator, I got right to work on it last night and have a steering system fab'd up already, need to install a throttle today, I want to use my spare hotfoot but will start with a deadman till I see how much moving around I need to do to get on plane
glad I ran into this thread

[Dave Cofone]

I could be wrong but I think adding a sit in version to each class would open up more interest and more new drivers to the sport. I know it would make things easier for me. I'd love to try out my sliding seat idea..........who knows maybe one of the boat builders on this forum might play around with it a bit.......

[Howie Nichols]

There was a 25 Hydro in the Ohio area too. Mark Kurz (I believe) also built a DSR that was a sit down.

[raceboat61-S]

I modified my B&H 25SSH and ran at the Nationals at Grass Lake 5-6 years ago. All I needed was a 6” extension on the steering wheel and tilted angle of dash so my legs fit under wheel. Throttle stayed same place. Was surprised that center of gravity was exactly the same. Boat handled better because weight (mine) was lower. Much more confidence in turns. Got on plane sitting on cockpit sidewalls then dropped down sitting. Easier to turn my head to see aft left and right to clear.ride was smooth because B&H carries a lot of air. Lower wind resistance, Joe Silverstein said I looked like a J driver on the course. Worked for me with 2 artificial knees ! Easy !

[Dave Cofone]

So you didn't need any contraption to mpve your body weight around and it worked just fine......This is very encouraging. This makes me wonder why there aren't more racers in a sitting position. I'd love to see some photo's of the boat and you racing it.....

[raceboat61-S]

Silvestri

[jsilvestri]

There was a class in OPC for 25 XS Mercury motors. It was a tunnel design with the same motors used in 25 SS Stock Hydro. I was involved with 2 of them. Mine was a kneeler design with a 25XS powerhead mounted on the longer 25SS tower housing. That combination made trailer launching more feasible. The other was a sit-down model with a 25XS motor complete and power trim. Both rigs would plane with the small racing props that pushed them 62-63 mph. Speeds were similar for both but the one with trim would accelerate better. We ran them at the 1986 OPC Nationals at Kankakee.

And for those have not designed or driven a lay-down hydro, the driver has much more mobility fore and aft than people think. It becomes more tricky when the driver has to use his feet but some forethought and engineering will allow for that.

Sam, do you have pictures of these boats? Would really like to see them along with more of your thoughts on them.

[jsilvestri]

Hi Mike, I vaguely remember you racing your boat as a sit down. I really commend you for giving it a try and making it work! I wish I remembered a little more about it.

[pops67g]

Raceboats aren't exactly known for their soft ride. Nobody has mentioned the wear and tear that your spine would likely get from sitting down. At least your legs help absorb some of the jolts if you are not in the smooth water out front.

[MadProps]

with my knees spine jarring would be a welcome for a change

[runabout333]

Didn't spend much time out front.

[Team B&H]

Joe, Here's the only pic I have of the boat I ran as It was being picked up by a forklift to be tossed into a dumpster after I brought it back to Mercury Marine. I borrowed it from them. It was a glass boat that A J Nardi built for Sport C or similar but a lower profile than other Sport C hulls. As I got it, it had plenty of hook in the sponsons, mostly due to shrinkage in both his mold and then again in the part. So I overlaid plywood on the sponsons to get them flat and blended that all in. It really ran good and was fun to drive, would go over rough water well. It was free enough so I almost blew it over once.

I helped Del Snyder with the design of his boat which was a slightly smaller version of a 45 boat. He may have pics of it.

[laddies]

What about the Merc Cubs they raced them a TOPO a couple of years, they were a great little rig. The ones at TOPO were ran by older drivers that were no longer able to run kneedowns and they had a great time, some wished they had a class with a larger engine. They were powered with 25 HP mercury outboards with stock props and engines only, a good way for anyone to race in a class and be completive.

[jsilvestri]

Thanks Sam. I wish you had more pictures but I understand. I thought you designed and built it yourself. You've designed and built a lot of different boats! Do you think a design like that could race with hydroplanes? Would it be safe? Would it be competitive? Is it necessary? My boat is longer than most other CSH's and I am able to get over the rough water pretty well and it runs good on smooth water too. I'm always thinking of ways to race on water that is accessible, has potential for sponsorship but is just to rough for most hydroplanes and modern runabouts.

[laddies]

The following video shows at about 30 seconds the sit down boat the Dale Ropp built in 2014 it placed 3rd at the Marathon Nationals

[laddies]

[ottawamercguy]

I have been thinking about a sit down runabout class for some time now. There is also a seat / saddle used
in white water canoes that takes the weight off the knees and allows shifting of weight that is a possibility.
This class could attract beginners and also accommodate those knee replacements as well. Ideally a one
design boat maybe like the older Fabbro runabouts with Yamos run at 1 3/8" like the 300 class. Starting
a class like this would take a lot of effort but a one design would level the playing field better than the 300
class.

[raceboat61-S]

Austin Duggan has been running a Merc powered Austin 25SSR (33-W) at at Top’O that has a “saddle”. He’s been top 3 for years at the Marathon Nationals. Saddle seems to work for him.

[Yellowjacket]

There used to be a set of rules that covered the sit down cockpit style Stock Outboards. Tilt was allowed as i recall. At max up tilt the height restriction of the class would be enforced.

I was looking at building a "sit down" boat and then they changed the rules a (seems like it was 4 or 5 years ago) and the paragraphs allowing power tilt in the stock and mod outboard classes disappeared. The rules were a bit vague in that they stated that power tilt was legal if the driver couldn't shift weight, and were written to imply that the driver had to be belted in place although that was not explicit in the rule... The Dillon boat work just fine on 35 hp motors with fishing lower units, so I'm sure that lower power classes could use a padded hull and a sit down configuration reasonably well.

When you think about it, lots of racers have gotten older and have left the sport due to their knees giving out, you hear that all the time. You could say they gave their knees to sport... Maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing if the rule makers gave something back to them.. If you watch that clip of the padded V in the "Top O', that's Tim Kurcz and his boat wasn't a sit down, it was a kneel down boat.

A padded V is probably the preferred configuration for a sit down runabout and Tim's Ropp built boat does fairly well so while it may not be the fastest setup, a padded sit down hull with power tilt would be an excellent way to expand the shrinking outboard classes.

I don't expect a sit down padded hull to be faster than the current flat turning boats, but in time, if they got to be dominant you could just make them run a 1/4 or a 1/2 inch deeper and make things equal again. Having a different depth of running for hull type would be easy to use to equalize competition.

JMHO and qualified as such, but it might help the sport if the rules allowed trim for sit down boats, might get some older drivers off the beach and into the water.

[Dave Cofone]

I would be perfectly happy to be the test driver. Dave Breisacher and DVORA are responsible for me even getting into the sport and since I started this post I see some definite interest. I need to get some laps under my belt kneeling to know what is needed to try and sit in the boat. But I plan on not using power tilt and definitely not being harnessed into the boat which will in turn require breathing apparatus.......I just want a straight up C class boat that can be driven either with a seat or by kneeling with very little fuss. Basically put a pad in and kneel or take it out and put in the sliding seat. Maybe it is possible maybe nt but I want to try.........