Legal fuel?

[drbyrne55]

One problem you can see from posts in this thread people are having to blend their fuels more and more to be legal at races and still save money from not buying the race fuels.This opens up a can of worms for testing at races for truely legal rule book fuel.How many people are aware that you can buy digitron legal oxigenated race fuel? It's out there on web sites available to buy and race and it has been proven to win races with and the sad thing is the manufacturers tote it up that it will pass the tests! If you don't think some people in APBA stock are not running hot fuel think again.And alot of this fuel is worthless to protest against because by the time it is sent off to the test lab for testing the chemicals that make it illegal and make it win have evaporated off or are null to the test due to ageing. It's a waste of your $ to protest it. Stock needs a level playing field for fuel.Period! Find a way to do it. I commend MHRA for the option to buy VP fuel for the 2009 nationals.At least they are trying. I truely don't see how anyone takes glory in a win by running hot fuel.They are losers.

P.S.- Raising the meter set point only allows for more cheeting.You can run more illegal chemical without notice.

Do you think this is true for ALL stock outboards .... in particular, the Yamato's? And what exact additive are you referring to ?

[G Stillwill]

Yes it is all motors that it will help even the rice burners. The only thing I have ever run is 93 Amoco/BP and any good oil I can get a deal on and thats in the Mercs and Hotrods. Tom is right some stuff is impossible to catch but should be labeled with s skull and cross bones. All the gas around me now is 10 percent so now will have to go to the VP MS93 which about what I was using only alot more money.

[propnuts]

Dang Dr Dan

Do you think this is true for ALL stock outboards .... in particular, the Yamato's? And what exact additive are you referring to ?

You are really determined to figure out how to mix up some of that stinky fuel aren't you

[sponsonhead]

Low Hanging Fruit

You are really determined to figure out how to mix up some of that stinky fuel aren't you

Think of it this way, Tony: At least our inspectors will know who to check first

R-19

[drbyrne55]

You are really determined to figure out how to mix up some of that stinky fuel aren't you

We have tested many different combos of race or pump fuel/ oils/ ratios ... my conclusion is the pump gas type octanes probably are best in the Yamato. If nothing else I would like to collect data on such storied tales .... to prove or disprove (off the race course)

[ricochet112]

One problem you can see from posts in this thread people are having to blend their fuels more and more to be legal at races and still save money from not buying the race fuels.This opens up a can of worms for testing at races for truely legal rule book fuel.How many people are aware that you can buy digitron legal oxigenated race fuel? It's out there on web sites available to buy and race and it has been proven to win races with and the sad thing is the manufacturers tote it up that it will pass the tests! If you don't think some people in APBA stock are not running hot fuel think again.And alot of this fuel is worthless to protest against because by the time it is sent off to the test lab for testing the chemicals that make it illegal and make it win have evaporated off or are null to the test due to ageing. It's a waste of your $ to protest it. Stock needs a level playing field for fuel.Period! Find a way to do it. I commend MHRA for the option to buy VP fuel for the 2009 nationals.At least they are trying. I truely don't see how anyone takes glory in a win by running hot fuel.They are losers.

P.S.- Raising the meter set point only allows for more cheeting.You can run more illegal chemical without notice.

I realize the ramifications on changing the leeway in fuel meter settings, but other than NOT buying pump gas what other options are there?

Our camp and the Hannon team have set records on nothing more than Chevron regular 87 octane and OMC oil, so the thought of more people cheating isn't the first thing that comes to my mind. Helping out the moral, ethical and legal racer that doesn't want to chase around for specialized gasoline, even when our rule book states PUMP gas only.

Why wasn't this addressed at the national meeting?

Mike Bartlett

[drbyrne55]

Think of it this way, Tony: At least our inspectors will know who to check first

R-19

Just don't check my props, the new blade design maybe borderline

[blueskyracer]

I realize the ramifications on changing the leeway in fuel meter settings, but other than NOT buying pump gas what other options are there?

Our camp and the Hannon team have set records on nothing more than Chevron regular 87 octane and OMC oil, so the thought of more people cheating isn't the first thing that comes to my mind. Helping out the moral, ethical and legal racer that doesn't want to chase around for specialized gasoline, even when our rule book states PUMP gas only.

Why wasn't this addressed at the national meeting?

Mike Bartlett

It was more important to get rid of motors at the National meeting than figure out a way to keep them running.

[26V]

Fuel

Well now is the time to start writing the fuel proposal for next years National meeting. Work out what to do about the fuel situation, how it will affect all the racers across the country, and how to test for banded fuel additives.

I do not have an answer to the fuel issue.
If you do, PLEASE write the proposal and get it to your commissioners before the next national meeting.
Could we go to "fuel of the day" at local races where everyone Must buy the gas at the designated gas station?
I do not believe it is in our best interests to just raise the allowable meter reading.
This is a problem we must solve, but it will take more then my one brain cell to do it.

[propnuts]

Ouch, that hurts

It was more important to get rid of motors at the National meeting than figure out a way to keep them running.

See Gene's reply. We have a lot of people in this organization a LOT smarter than me on this subject, and I'm not hearing any solutions from them. Also for historical perspective bluesky, we have had issues in the fairly recent past with fuels that were heavily suspected of being illegal, so we would be really hesitant to relax the rules and allow or encourage even more cheating. Keep in mind that we are talking about some really nasty carcinogens here also, bad news all the way around.

[Matt Dagostino]

Sorc................

Helping out the moral, ethical and legal racer that doesn't want to chase around for specialized gasoline, even when our rule book states PUMP gas only.

Why wasn't this addressed at the national meeting?

Mike Bartlett

This issue has been talked about for years at National Meetings etc etc and the conclusion is there is no conclusion! Now that ethanol is 'everywhere' we have no choice but to buy this VP or Fales fuel which goes against the essence of Stock Outboard Racing 'PUMP" gas. Which by the way is at $1.70 per gallon around here!

Amoco 93 has always been our staple fuel.................now it's VP MS-93 at $10.50 per gallon. Ugh.

[bill boyes]

Funny thing, Us left coasters (Calif) have had a legal pump fuel issue for 20 years. Our boat racing family could have cared less as that was a Calif problem. Now since it is in other backyards now it is an issue.
As I have stated many times on this site just list on the sanction fuel of the day will be at such and such gas station and the inspector sets the meter with that fuel. At races where you cannot use the Fuel of the day rule.
1. Buy AV gas if you can
2. Buy race fuel 110 leaded and mix 50/50 with pump gas. Do not make more than you can use in one day of racing. has worked for me for many years.
Also remember some race gas(unleaded) will not pass the meter. Has happened to me. Bought 100 octane unleaded and the meter was off scale like +70.
Do not know if we have VP fuel out here. We do have Trick and ERC. ERC is located in the Bay Area San Leandro. I have spoken and visited the place and they are very helpful. We have used ERC 110 leaded without the 50/50 pump gas mix and have had good results in our 102/302's

[Matt Dagostino]

Ouch..................

It was more important to get rid of motors at the National meeting than figure out a way to keep them running.

Glad you said that and not me! You are due for a tongue lashing from the Commission! Brace yourself.........

[blueskyracer]

I don't know what the cure is but it needs to be addressed soon. The new administration wants to make all fuels BIO soon to get rid of or seriously cut back oil dependance from the Arab countries. They have also been testing Bio diesel in comercial jets so it is not long and even AV gas will have something in it.

Maybe if nobody cheated ...............

[drbyrne55]

See Gene's reply. We have a lot of people in this organization a LOT smarter than me on this subject, and I'm not hearing any solutions from them. Also for historical perspective bluesky, we have had issues in the fairly recent past with fuels that were heavily suspected of being illegal, so we would be really hesitant to relax the rules and allow or encourage even more cheating. Keep in mind that we are talking about some really nasty carcinogens here also, bad news all the way around.

Right on point .... many of these additives are serious carcinogens. Our existing test prodecures readily detect them though, so the rules and tests ARE in place. The problem is there are 4 to 5 tests necessary to this (on site) and generally I only see the dielectric being tested. Lab test require proper sampling procedures and I believe $200-300 for lab runs... who pays.

1. Does each region have the necessary "chemistry" set-ups to test beyond the digitron? I don't know. I believe the APBA could hire a consultant to adjust the dielectric to make pump fuel legal while also keeping out the nasty stuff or should I say stinky stuff

Maybe I live in a cave, but I not convinced fuel tinkering even helps ... my bet, probably best to tinker with props.