Press realese just sent out from APBA HQ - sobering numbers

[sam]

Not really. Their history goes to NOA days.There was no mod in APBA at that time. When NOA folded APBA Mod was born. Some of us race all three organizations and and have a great time. I can say we always are able to meet our weekend expenses when we race with NBRA.

Actually there was Mod in APBA during the 1950's. Pretty well died in APBA by 1960, but carried on strong in NOA. When NOA folded APBA Mod was re-born.

"Big sponsorship" usually has as many cons as pros. Suppose a sponsor for some reason only wanted to sponsor Sidewinder classes? Suppose a sponsor wanted only fiberglass and carbon fiber boats less than 2 years old at their events? Would Stock embrace a limited sponsorship?

Sponsors tend to throw their weight around and ask for special conditions that do not suit everyone ... often many people leave or are just plain cut out when things go "big time" ... its the nature of the beast

[wagner-racing16-s]

Here is another way to look at it. You have divisions ranging from stock outboard all the way to unlimiteds. Now you say that stock outboard is grass roots which i think it might be safe to say as amatuer racing. Maybe we need to have a pro listing within the stock outboard classes. It just seems like if you wanna go into the pro category you have to have money and start all over with new boats and motors pretty much. why not within the stock category make a pro title that one could obtain to be nationally rank like motor cross. Then have pro stock outboard races as a next level up from just the normal races like the pro title series has there own events. But within this you must have a stock pro card and it will be a step above the rest were just for instance you could have prize money and trophies. Within this you base it on the structure of the current pro class. Also what you can still do is have the regular club races and kind of make it like a pro/am race weekend. I think this could take and increase and give stock outboard a next step that is affordable and still fully based off of what they already have and run.

[Gunjumper]

Under Sams' future big sponser model, I'm glad I'm already on Team Racecraft and Sidewinder! Come on Red Bull! GL

[blueskyracer]

Dare I touch this one..........Does anyone think that APBA, AOF and NBRA should all exist when, as Nate said early, we are on life support?

Someone should try and unite the front........

ok.....fire away.

One of the big reasons that there are three different groups is the fact that a smaller race site can get cheaper insurance and sanctions fees. You are talking about insurance for $600-$1000 versus $2600 for APBA. Also the santion fees are a lot less for AOF and NBRA. Also you are given a lot more time to race since most of our races have about 10 classes so we can run each class 3 times a day and only need to be on the water for 5 hours with lunch break.

Another reason that there are three groups is because not everybody plays well with others.

[Brian10s]

You've obviously have not attended any of the events to which I referred. The observations you stated were at best formed from a la-z-boy and what you saw on tv. If you would have attended the Dew Tour or any other event, you would have seen plenty of privateers and grass root competitors hauling their rigs behind the old S10 pickup truck and doing their own wrenching.. You dismiss the comparison based on a loosely associated point of view......don't they call that the straw man argument?.

Regardless of whether or not we offer this "dream", we must still compete against it.

Nate

Ironically, there was a time when NFL players carried their own gear to the stadium and NBA players walked out to the bus in their uniforms rather than $2000 suits. Nothing starts at the top and much of what we see today was once the "backyard cornhole" game you referenced. Your anology was funny, but it embodies the obstacle we face..........................ourselves.

Nate

Once again, I need to realize that when you disagree (even though I was mostly in agreement with you) with a engineer (or lawyer) you need to have 20lbs of paper evidence and dot every i & cross every t.

Ok - I think we can agree that there are many things that we can learn from other forms of motorsports. You are correct, they are our competition. And, I also agree that not everybody in Mootorcross is James Stewart with a factory gig, yes most show up with the bike in the back of the S10 and wrech on their own stuff.

My points were -
1st - that most other forms of racing, from bike to carts to legions to late models all have a "dream job" carrot that dangles in front of guys. The chance to do what you love for a living. It is the spark to get people started.
2nd - There is a main difference between other sports and us - that difference is permanent facility and schedule. They have someone who put money down to build the facility and because of that, promote that facility. Also, because of a regular schedule at a fixed facility, they can pull from the surrounding community, not only fans who want to watch the product but also a steady stream of participants. We are a bunch of gypsies who run around the country "barnstorming" towns once or twice a year. Also, for the most part, we like racing on these perfect little lakes out in the middle of nowhere. Most are hard for us to find, much less anyone interested in watching us.

To Skippy's point - red Bull only sponsors 1 class of plane racing. A handfull of guys have the skill (and sponsorship/ coin) to run it. It would be similiar if Red Bull sponsored the Unlimiteds. They would get more exposure but only a handful of guys can really do it. On another point - the Title Series started out very much like what you suggested. Back in the 80's, Pro racing was done at the local level - TRORA was a Stock & Pro club, not Mod. When the Title Series hit, all our Pro guys went there and the club had to move away from Pro racing because the drivers didn't come to our races.

Let's look at Pro Racing - it is probably the most marketable program of all the outboards. Even they have trouble securing sponsorship and sites. And these guys travel everywhere to run and their races are built around a "show" for the sponsor and spectators, not geared towards the driver. The USTS has done a ton of work to get where they are and yet they do not have the "Dew Tour", Red Bull or whatever. They are years ahead of the other outboarder in this area.

My point on this is there is not a magic formula that will take us from where we are to where other sports are. But as Nate stated, there is plenty we could borrow from others that would help us in presentation.

That is even if that is the direction the sport needs to go. That is probably the first hurtle that needs to be jumped.

[B Walker]

I see where this is going.....

It is the same old "do we race for ourselves or to put on a marketable show" discussion.

Let the PRO's prove that a marketable, promoteable event is financially possible then lets discuss if SO/Mod wants to do what they do. Until then, we race for ourselves.

BW

[Tim Weber]

Another reason that has not been discussed is boat design.

Here is where I am going with this. In the old days, we ran on any kind of water. Being originally a region 7 guy we ran on everything. To my knowledge there is not 1 race course from the 50's, 60's, or 70's that are used today. The only venue used from the 80's is Burlington. Why, it's toooo rough! Wah,Wah,Wah!

The big sites, with big crowds that I remember were, Winneconne, Menasha,
Depere, Waukasha, Neosho, Milwaukee lake front during Summer Fest, the big cousre at Oshkosh. These were carnival weekends and the biggest event of the year for some of these communities. Menasha and Winneconne would have 5000-10,000 spectators during the day and more folks at night with the live bands and beer tents. The racers were celeberties the weekend of the race. You could sometimes hardly buy a beer for yourself.

We ran boats that were able to handle the conditions. There is no way I could run my new stuff at 75% of the above mentioned places.

We are running what would have been a kilo boat 25 years ago in competition. With runanbouts, the current Austin/Runne boat would not be viable if not for the side fin. I'd like to see someone try and roll up that puppy in the slop we used to run in.

So, yes, we have evolved into a group that could put on one hell of a show, anywhere and on anything into race for ourselves on protected little lakes in the middle of nowhere. We are surprised by the results?

From what I can see the last great races are Millville and the Depue nationals.

We are where we are for a reason and it's not just lack of motors or expense of equipment.

Tim

[Fox]

pro racing series

fyi We have the pro racing series you talk about in OPC.

APBA registers it as approved Major Series and grants two groups this title per class per year (ie for 2010 sst 120 - APR Series and PROP series)

there are local series races in certain regions put on by local clubs and then there are also major series races (5-7 per year) which are attended by the higher dollar/more competetive teams. The Major series races are required to have minimum prize money etc. and get more sponsors and tv time. APR has expanded their tv and internet coverage very well over the past 3 years.



Jay

[drbyrne55]

Another reason that has not been discussed is boat design.

Here is where I am going with this. In the old days, we ran on any kind of water. Being originally a region 7 guy we ran on everything. To my knowledge there is not 1 race course from the 50's, 60's, or 70's that are used today. The only venue used from the 80's is Burlington. Why, it's toooo rough! Wah,Wah,Wah!

The big sites, with big crowds that I remember were, Winneconne, Menasha,
Depere, Waukasha, Neosho, Milwaukee lake front during Summer Fest, the big cousre at Oshkosh. These were carnival weekends and the biggest event of the year for some of these communities. Menasha and Winneconne would have 5000-10,000 spectators during the day and more folks at night with the live bands and beer tents. The racers were celeberties the weekend of the race. You could sometimes hardly buy a beer for yourself.

We ran boats that were able to handle the conditions. There is no way I could run my new stuff at 75% of the above mentioned places.

We are running what would have been a kilo boat 25 years ago in competition. With runanbouts, the current Austin/Runne boat would not be viable if not for the side fin. I'd like to see someone try and roll up that puppy in the slop we used to run in.

So, yes, we have evolved into a group that could put on one hell of a show, anywhere and on anything into race for ourselves on protected little lakes in the middle of nowhere. We are surprised by the results?

From what I can see the last great races are Millville and the Depue nationals.

We are where we are for a reason and it's not just lack of motors or expense of equipment.

Tim

Depue .....

Although Byrne Racing is still a newbie in generational sense, we have enjoyed Depue our first 2 years despite the 3500 mile round trip. The water does get ROUGH....

I happened to find this video of the OSY finals showing how rough and windy is was at the 2009 Nationals ..... John had to get off the the throttle to keep her right side up and not stuff it.

link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lQIX8Y4im0

[Tim Weber]

Depue rough? Compared to the sites I mentioned in my earlier post, Depue is a small farm pond. You youngsters don't know the meaning of the word.

We raced on occasion on white caps. I've got the pictures to prove it. One day at Lake Michigan we ran on 6 foot swells. You couldn't go but 25-30 mph but we put on a show.

Tim

[Tim Weber]

I forgot to pass on a true story about what rough means. I was a little kid about 3 or 4. I don't remember what race it was. Anyway, it was so awful the race committe decided to run the event and DSR boats were used for all the classes. My grandpa loaned his boat out for ASR and BSR that day.

Why did they race? The show must go on. The sponser pleaded for a show to keep the crowd at the lake.

Maybe someone can remember the race site.

Tim

[drbyrne55]

Depue rough? Compared to the sites I mentioned in my earlier post, Depue is a small farm pond. You youngsters don't know the meaning of the word.

We raced on occasion on white caps. I've got the pictures to prove it. One day at Lake Michigan we ran on 6 foot swells. You couldn't go but 25-30 mph but we put on a show.

Tim

Shows my inexperience .... maybe it should have been @ 70 mph it looked rough

[modracer7b]

Right On Tim

We used to race at Newport Rhode Island in the Atlantic Ocean. There were races in the 60's that took as much skill to stay upright as to win a heat. I left in the early 70's and returned in the late 80's to find boat racing was not boat racing anymore. I came back because I missed racing, but what I came back to was not the same, not even close. I left again around 2001 and I don't miss what that was.

Bill Rosado

P.S. I also remember races in Region 1 where people were putting A's & B's on C & D boats to be able to race. Not many races ever stopped for weather conditions then, but I was at one in Pembroke, Ma that had to be cancelled for a snowstorm.

[Big Don]

We can argue the reasons all day long why we are not racing at those sites anymore. Not saying you and I disagree. A lot of those communities didn’t want us anymore. Insurance pressure, local community pressure, shutting down the river, I can’t use my 40,000.00 pleasure boat and I will not re-elect city officials if this continues… are all part of the reasons.

Agree the current boats could never run on the water we did back in the day.

I will say that I think that is a huge part of the reason we don’t get as many new members. We are not as visible as we used to be.

[Kev43V]

Big Don pointed out some very valid data. And he allso birings up a very real issue. Visability:
I would like to see the people that go to a tavern or corner pub regularly(surely some do !)
take the whitney point or grass lake dvd. and ask them to play it. gauge the patrons response to the dvd. You might be pleasantly surprised. I sure was when i did it.