Press realese just sent out from APBA HQ - sobering numbers

[14J]

I'm voting for you.....

He'll get thrown out in a year for thinking like that. Just ask Reed.

[Dave M]

Part of The Problem

Dean, I agree. We have both pointed this out for a few years now. Nothing has changed. I also think it is only part of the problem, granted, a big part.

Next is complex governing rules.

With that said, good luck boys. I used to be a die hard as well, but even die hards can burn out trying to get something changed. You simply become a blow hard by perception.

[modracer7b]

I got there 15 years ago

Funny how some of the other die-hards are realizing it's not fun anymore. Some of us were being chastized for saying these same things to try to help the sport back then. Some of the people that helped chase us away are seeing the result of doing nothing back then.

Bill Rosado

[Kev43V]

how often is it that when you have 4 A's and 4 ASX. That 3 of the ASX's are really ASX and one of them is a fill in A that is just running to give them a race. At the same time There are 3 A's with an ASX stepping up to make a race. I know we are talking about a catagory and a division. Yet, why can't we just run them all together and be done with it, just score them seperate.
Sure it will cost the hosting club a couple entrys but....

[sam]

how often is it that when you have 4 A's and 4 ASX. That 3 of the ASX's are really ASX and one of them is a fill in A that is just running to give them a race. At the same time There are 3 A's with an ASX stepping up to make a race. I know we are talking about a catagory and a division. Yet, why can't we just run them all together and be done with it, just score them seperate.
Sure it will cost the hosting club a couple entrys but....

The solution to that is ... allowing it to run once, but be scored twice ... if they agree to pay twice and run once. Achieves all goals except more seat time.

Its like a community project where everyone agrees it must be done ... as long as it is not in their back yard.

[ricochet112]

Maybe 500 entries is not a sign of sucess, there are only 40something entries at most Nascar events--are they sucessful? Maybe we need to decide what sucessful means and work from there??
Pat

You mean the Sprint Cup Series, there are many, many classes in NASCAR, you need to compare Cup to Unlimited...and even unlimiteds can't pull in the sponsorship $$$ that auto racing can.

[Big Don]

Not to pick on Dayton but I too just came back from there. And I agree that there were way too many 3 & 4 boat races. Now I understand why that race committee runs all that stuff. They need the income to offset the cost of the lake. But I found myself looking away from the race course so many times because it was boring. The same can be said for many of the races we all go to. I was shocked to only see 4 CSH at Dayton, they were all good running rigs so there was some good racing but really, 4 CSH? It’s one of the biggest classes we have in APBA. I just don’t get why there are not more boats at this race.

I agree we have to do something about the length of our schedule and the number of classes.

Rich, I support that structure 100%.

Scott, I agree more time on the water, less classes. I have been a proponent of 3 heat racing for years. If the average racer had more time on the water with his class he might go to more races.

We have been doing this a long time and I’m struggling to stay enthused at the races like many of you. I have been trying to figure out all year what to put Thomas in next year. (He suggested he get Donny’s 20 ride) I really don’t want them racing each other so that means I have to either put him in a runabout (probably not happening or I buy equipment for another class and then it will have to be stuff for 2 classes because he’s bored if he only races 1 class. But if it were 1 class with 3 or 4 heats that is a different story.

[sam]

Hooray to the guys who love boat racing enough to race just one class and volunteer to do the other jobs to keep us on the water!

I support any and all class combination schemes ...

[dholt]

Below is a proposal I wrote addressing class participation and had John Runne submit to the SORC at the National Mtg. 2 years ago. Support was tepid at best.


Stock Outboard Class Participation Guidelines

1. In order for a class to be recognized with National standing and be eligible for all awards for a racing season, there must be at least 30 participants in the preceding racing year.
2. Participants will be defined as any driver who garnered points in a SO class during the racing year.
3. Should a class not have 30 participants in a racing year, the class will be deemed a local/regional class for the next racing year. The class will not be eligible for National High Points, National or Divisional championships or records. Further, no activity in that class will count toward Hall of Champion points.
4. If the class reaches a minimum of 30 participants in the year it is designated as a local/regional class, it will be reinstated as a National class for the next year. If a SO class falls below 30 participants for two consecutive years, that class will remain as a local/regional class AND be placed on Probation. To be removed from Probation and return to National standing, a class must meet the minimum of 30 participants for two consecutive years.
5. Should a SO class be on Probation for two consecutive years, it will be dropped by the SORC from the SO category.



I have been beating this drum for the last several years. I have a similar document that I submitted to the SORC after the 2003 season.

I don't know what it's going to take for the Stock and Modified membership to wake up and really make some substantial changes.

On the flip side, members have done a heck of a job the past couple years with Driver's Schools...attempting to get new people involved. While that has been a big positive, WE have not changed the product...ie...class structure... to make the sport more attractive.

Like Don said, I'm not picking on Dayton...but will use it as an example. It was perfect water/weather this year and a well run event. Let's say I was a new driver at Dayton and my class ran in the last set on Sunday. I would have sat around from 8am (driver's meeting) until 5:30pm before I ever got my feet wet. 6-8 minutes of water time. And what if I had to drive 5-6 hours to get home?

Really? Am I all in on that type of program? I hardly think so.

It is way past time to bite the bullet and make some decisions that will give us a chance to progress...not just maintain the status quo. If you're not moving forward, you're moving backward. Like never going testing and expecting your rig to be faster. It doesn't make sense.

Dana

[TONY TRUJILLO r11]

i came from many different forms of motor sports and with this outboard racing all it is to me is a paid practice day $120 for a weekend one class 6 laps = $ 20 a lap no wonder we are loosing racers .when you can go to the lake on a non race day and practice all day for the cost of fuel and lunch hmmmmmm makes you wonder what am i doing this for because its no longer fun when you spend that kind of money then are treated like a child and talked down to at the races.HOPE SOME NEW BLOOD CAN CHANGE THINGS AND NOT WORRY ABOUT LOOSING ALL THE CONTROL . When i was drag racing the racers were not working on the track between their runs we were working on our rigs . GOOD LUCK !

[14J]

Same conversations year after year. You see it in the forums, you hear it on the beach, and yet nothing ever changes. My sense is that the majority of our members get it. So what's holding up change, what are the road blocks?

[jeff55v]

I'm sure the DSR class is the major cause of these long boring race days at each and every race site. Better eliminate it so it will stop boring everybody.

[bill van steenwyk]

Some causes for high cost racing

If you look as motor, boat, props, and other mechanical costs now versus 1955 when I first got interested and started, in actual present day dollars compared to that time, costs are comparable.

OK, what has changed??

Insurance costs, both personal injury and spectator liability. There have been many comments already about the high cost of sanction/insurance fees charged by APBA. I have no intention of getting in a pissing contest about whether these costs are justified, or how the parties come up with the figures, BUT when it costs a local club/sponsor the amount of money it does to put on a race, unless that can be recouped from advertising or other means, then it has to come from the folks that participate. I absolutely CANNOT believe some of the entry fees I hear being charged these days.

I am sure as has already been pointed out, the number of classes that exist and are run have a direct bearing on making that money available so the club can pay the fees and insurance. Add to those high costs all the other difficulties that have been pointed out time and time again on this site, water hard to come by, no manufacturers making motors suitable out of the box for stock racing, difficulty in finding parts for obsolete motors, on and on, and it does not take Einstein to figure out there is a problem . Then throw in all the other things kids have to do these days and I am surprised it is not worse than it is.

If anybody thinks that the sanction and insurance fees are going down anytime soon, especially in the litigious society we live in today, there is the bridge right down the road I will sell you. These sanction and insurance costs which are passed on to the racers either have to come down (not likely) or you have to figure some way to either run without them and all the things that money buys, or start picking the brains of the folks that seem to be making a success of the NBRA organization, for example. That might require doing without some of the things you have become used to, but that beats the alternative.

Another problem that needs fixing is the very short list of places with water that are "boat race friendly" anymore that don't charge an arm and a leg that cause the sponsoring club to have to pay even more than just the sanction and insurance for the opportunity to put boats on the water. I don't have an easy solution for that one other than private investors to provide water for primarily boat racing only. That means lots of events of all different kinds to pay the bills.

YOU EITHER HAVE TO HAVE MORE BOATS IF THE RACERS ARE GOING TO PAY THE FREIGHT, SO THEY CAN PAY LESS EACH, OR YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SPONSOR PAYING A MINUMUM FEE TO DO THE SAME. SEE US TITLE SERIES, and even that model does not work all the time. LESS CLASSES, MORE BOATS PER CLASS FOR A SHORTER PROGRAM THAT IS MORE EASILY SOLD. It has worked for them for 20 years, but the reason it did was because the founders of USTS said "these are the classes we are going to run, and that's all"!!!

They did lose some participants at first, but ended up much stronger very shortly. The model you are running under now is not sustainable. All you have to do is look at your membership and the direction it is heading. The hardest thing about making changes to be more successful is admitting you aren't doing it the best way at present. That goes all the way to the top of APBA. What worked even 10 years ago is no good anymore.

[propnuts]

The reason we'll never change

I'm sure the DSR class is the major cause of these long boring race days at each and every race site. Better eliminate it so it will stop boring everybody.

I think that pretty well sums it up, eliminate classes is good, eliminate MY class is bad.

[kurvtun]

wrong

YOU are wrong.... TOP O MICHIGAN is still used today!!!!!! just thought i would throw that out there.

Another reason that has not been discussed is boat design.

Here is where I am going with this. In the old days, we ran on any kind of water. Being originally a region 7 guy we ran on everything. To my knowledge there is not 1 race course from the 50's, 60's, or 70's that are used today. The only venue used from the 80's is Burlington. Why, it's toooo rough! Wah,Wah,Wah!

The big sites, with big crowds that I remember were, Winneconne, Menasha,
Depere, Waukasha, Neosho, Milwaukee lake front during Summer Fest, the big cousre at Oshkosh. These were carnival weekends and the biggest event of the year for some of these communities. Menasha and Winneconne would have 5000-10,000 spectators during the day and more folks at night with the live bands and beer tents. The racers were celeberties the weekend of the race. You could sometimes hardly buy a beer for yourself.

We ran boats that were able to handle the conditions. There is no way I could run my new stuff at 75% of the above mentioned places.

We are running what would have been a kilo boat 25 years ago in competition. With runanbouts, the current Austin/Runne boat would not be viable if not for the side fin. I'd like to see someone try and roll up that puppy in the slop we used to run in.

So, yes, we have evolved into a group that could put on one hell of a show, anywhere and on anything into race for ourselves on protected little lakes in the middle of nowhere. We are surprised by the results?

From what I can see the last great races are Millville and the Depue nationals.

We are where we are for a reason and it's not just lack of motors or expense of equipment.

Tim