40/44 tech and buy sell swap

[blueskyracer]

This is my newest project. I bought this 44 basket case. Looks like a good way to get the feet wet and I think in D mod a back up motor is a must.

Humm now where to start. Little different than building boats

[blueskyracer]

Since this motor is a 1963 or 64 engine what year did mercury go from Points/Mag to electronic ignition and is it interchangable with ease? Then do you have to carry a battery to power it?

I gather there is more than one type of reed cage? Brass and ? Why is one better over the other?

And last I guess there was a large variety of carbs avaliable. What made one better over the other?

I bet these are some loaded questions!

[Guest]

Ignition and reed cages

There are a lot of ways to go with the ignition. The clasic Mercury magneto, which I prefer, the later Mercury self energizing CD which has componets that look like a mag, the 44XS system where you really would have to start with this engine which has a taller crank and a very large and heavy flywheel with is used for electrical power generation. None of these systems require a battery.
In the after market area a number of options are available, some of which use a battery. One unique one is made by Steve Roskowski which is fairly easy to install and setup and will not require a battery. One thought must be considered is are you willing to give up a little HP to drive the power requirements over and above the elecctrical needs. Any of the belt driven units will eat a little HP due to friction and windage in the unit. Secondly, if you have a rotating mass, i.e. magneto it will slightly slow down the capability of the engine to build RPM due to its inertia. This could be a small factor on a short course if you have to back the throttle down in a turn and then open it up again.
Reed cages are in the engine for two reasons. First they are a key component in the induction system and secondly they act as a bearing and seal between cylinder pairs. Brass by its nature makes an excellent bearing and with an gas/oil mix of 12:1 will live a long time at the high RPM and loads imposed on them when running as a MOD engine. I like the large slot brass for that reason even though the aluminum cages flow a little better when used in the induction system. As the reed cage wears the sealing function of it is diminished thus reducing crankcase compression. When building the TX444DK we removed this function from the engine and use external reeds. Photos shown above in this thread We also inject oil into the reed cage to handle the RPM we are running, 9,000 +/- to make sure we don,t heat them and have more than enough oil in it.

Alan

[sam]

Merc went to battery ignitions around 1970. There is no change to the hanger bracket and they are easily interchangeable.

Harry Brinkman was successfully using self energizing magnetos on his C Mods at 9,300 rpm, but that may be the rpm limit of the magneto system. It may be above the rpm limit of some magnetos and some guys setting them up.

The advantage of the magneto is it is less complicated, weighs less than carrying a battery and as available used is the cheapest ignition for these motors. If I recall correctly there are several Merc electronic ignitions and one of them does require a battery. The supposed disadvantage of the magneto is as Alan stated, the magneto places more drag on the motor thru the timing belt. Not all of the resistance of turning the mag is the mass of the internal rotating parts, there is also drag from the bearings and friction from the belt itself - but mostly magnetic force from the internal magnets and coils generating the electricity for each spark. I never heard anyone concerned about the windage inside a magneto before. I would not be surprised to learn it is nearly equal to the combined friction of the points cam follower and the force to open the points. It would be interesting for some AP student to do the math on it. Another disadvantage of the magneto is the points assemblies require maintenance. The cam follower wears, the springs loose tension and the points wear from friction and arcing. Three other maintenance parts are the bearings, the rotor and the carbon brush for the rotor, but these are rarely problems.

Some people feel the aluminum cages are less rigid and do less of a job holding the block rigidly around the crank.

Above idle the KA carbs are essentially the same except for the depth of the nozzle in the float bowl. Alan and David sell replacement long nozzles. You can make extended nozzles yourself, but its hard to beat their price.

I used adjustable main jets until I checked out Rich Fushlin's equipment and asked him a few questions. I have had success with fixed jets since then. A problem I ran into with my best pipes was the pipes made the carbs run lean with the largest jets Tillotson made for the KA's. I solved the problem by drilling the jets out until they were too rich. Then I went back one drill size and filed the jets with a welding torch tip file until the size was perfect.

Not only will fixed jets not go out of adjustment, they will show you things like whether or not some other tuning makes a real change. Bike and snowmobile tuners will tell you, if your pipes do not make your motor lean, they aren't pulling in any more air. With adjustable main jets, you are never really certain there has been a change.

The advantage of adjustable jets is its quicker to make a change for different atmospheric conditions or maybe a load difference like a different prop.

[blueskyracer]

Thanks for the replys Alan and Sam. I guess I will have decisions to make. I do think for us the adjustable carbs maybe the way to go since a lot of our races are at 2000 feet or better and then we go down to sea level to play with SOA.

One last question. Are there different types of reeds and reed stops avaliable to? Seems like there were a lot of options on these motors thru out the years. Is that because the basic motor was in productions for such a long run? Do these reeds loose tension over time?

[Art K]

Ignitions

Did you look at the photos of the Electromotive system,I posted. This system has lots of advantages. # 1 it is has been dependable. If you you run Merc mags you better have a couple of spares, you will need them before the season is over. If you want you can call me, I would be happy to discuss your ignition concerns. 314 741 0563
Art Kampen

[sam]

This motor had the longest production run of any outboard ... its the VW Beetle/Ford Model T of outboards.

Reeds may become loose with hours of operation, but not normal age due to sitting around. I prefer to cut my own reeds from fiberglass or carbon fiber. You can buy a whole sheet of material enough for a lifetime for less than the price of one set of premade reeds.

I have not seen any performance advantage from premade reeds from Boyesen or Chris Carson. Any reeds that made a noticeable difference had a very short lifetime, like 6 heats or less.

"Reed stops" are mostly there for flutter dampening; Merc used them to choke a few big motors, but most motors have them already open to the max from the factory.

[blueskyracer]

This is all great info and hope that it helps more than this old newbie. Two more weekends and we will be racin. Have to run the C Mod since the D Mod boat is still under construction but we will be ready for our first race Memorial Day. Just want to have a back up to the Buget build 40 that I pick up in two weeks.

[blueskyracer]

Art, I did look closely at your system but it looks really involved for me. I would bet it is really spendy to.

[Danny Pigott]

Mike,I think you will be a lot better off with fixed jets at least to start with. I ran them from 1970 on while most if not all others ran adjustable. You should not have much trouble at at 2000 feet they are very easy to change. You need to have someone set, are help you set the float level an drop in the float.I use to run Parker needle and seats they work good. I don't know if they still make them, Dudley use to sell them.If you used the fixed jets you need a small piece of wood like a tooth pic to get the jet out with after you un screw it, this is just what worked for me for many years.It is hard to adj. carbs on a 4 cyl. with out a test prop and then you have to be good to do it,also always run the water shield when testing it will make a differance at times in the turn. The trick that Art said about cutting the cap on the mag. will be one of the best things you ever do if you run one. This is just some of my thoughts i know everybody has ther on way.

[blueskyracer]

More decisions to make. I know that these carbs have been converted to adjustable but I still have the floats. What range of jet sizes should a person have?

[blueskyracer]

When I put this motor back together I want to replace all the nasty looking bolt. Do I need to get grade 8 or can I use hardware bolts? I also see Points for the dist are $75, Is that a miss print. Got the price from East Coast Marine. Seems just a wee bit spendy.

Who is a good supplier for new parts for you?

[BabcockBros38A]

bolts and mag parts

Hey Mike
The prices at East coast are right, and I have had good luck with their delivery.

I know it's shocking but remember these Magnetos are real old and newer electronics are so much cheaper for Factories to make.

Look at the cost of new rotor button, Mag cover, and End cap!!! Do that while you're seated please!

Before you order the points look and see if you have small hole or large hole in the movable fiber contact side.

Older Keikhaefer mags had the small pin on the bearing support and newer ones had the larger hole.

The large hole points are the $70 ones, #393-1504 A6, A10, A11 etc.

The small pin ones you can find Sierra makes a replacement #18-5148 between $30-$35.

Welcome to the Merc Mod gang and have fun

Pete

[blueskyracer]

I have also with the help of a fellow race come up with another parts supplier. Below is the address for both since they both have good web sites:


http://store.eastcoastmarineservice.com/


http://seaway.wss-pro.com/pages/cust..._Specials.aspx

[blueskyracer]

Another question; what kind of grease do folks use to hold all the needle bearings in place during assembly?