J Motors, now what do we do...

[csh12M]

Question for the J Category?

I got my next door neighbors 12 year old son interested in racing last season. They attended a few events liked the sport and atmosphere and have decided they would like to race. They called APBA today to purchase a Mercury and were told that the last one had just been sold. These are not mechanically inclined people who want to buy one on ebay and figure our how to make it work. They would like to buy a new competitive motor to race.

What do I tell them?

Does the J category have a plan or attempting to get more Mercury motors?

Where do we go from here?

Thanks,
Dean

[csh12M]

Cmon

Cmon, we have to find an answer for this? don't we......

If someone at Mercury agreed to the program and an EPA exemption was given the first time, won't it work again. I would think Mercury would like to see kids racing their motors.

Any answers or input would be appreciated. I have a neighbor who has $ needs motor?

CSH12M

[David Weaver]

Well you could always....

...wait until he turns 14 and purchase a brand new 125 VRP!!

[bill boyes]

We will need to discuss that at the Annual Meeting in January. I would start looking at the used market. There is about 80 conversion Kits available from APBA and Sidewinder is making the gearcases.
Maybe George Stillwill can give us some input.

[raceboat61-S]

Dean,
Certainly you must know that a new Mercury is not competitive right out of the box anyway. All of the really fast ones have been completely broken down and reworked to closer tolerances by George Stillwill or some of the other motorheads. Best plan is to help your neighbors buy a nice used rig. Most competitive Merc "J" that I know of (that is for sale) is Mike Sweeney's. I think it is a Flyer. Mike is a big kid and still he was very fast. I'll bet it looks new, too.
I'm starting 2 of my grandkids out in JH and JR next Spring. I chose NOT to buy a new Merc for the same reasons stated above. I think it is unrealistic to expect any 12 year old to be competitive in the first year or so regardless of the quality of his equipment. There are exceptions but they have the benefit of lots of testing with a coach who knows how to teach. Joel Kiddy comes to mind. Been around boat racing for years, had great coaching, and world class equipment. Mike Marshall, Raceboat 61-S

[G Stillwill]

First of all this is not to drum up bussiness to do motor work but this is just a fact you cannot run the new Mercury without setting the clearances in it. The bore clearance is so tight the first thing you will do is fry both pistons. Atleast 50 percent of the fishing motors I tear down have scuffed pistons in them and thats using them for fishing. I just did three new APBA Mercs before they were ever on the back of a boat and one that was raced some which needed new pistons. I have converted probably ten fishing motors and you dont have to have a PHD to install the conversion kit. Buy the 15 shop manual and follow the kit instructions and its easy to install. If someone needs help installing it Im just a phone call away and can answer any questions. I can also install them along with setting all the clearances in the motor which is another option. I dont charge an arm and a leg and do this just to help the division out with the kids.

[csh12M]

I hear ya and understand the story....

I hear you and understand the story, but try explaining all of that to a "never ever" racer before? I already explained that they need to buy a new motor and then have it blueprinted. Now I have to try and expalin that he has to scrounge a motor and then have it blueprinted. I am not saying we won't get this guy....we will I will explain it all.

What I am asking of the J category is....if the program worked once why won't it work again. This is the first people I have gotten into racing from scratch...it is pretty hard to explain the J class to a newbie?

[G Stillwill]

Dean Im sure the APBA would like to continue the program and from what I understand are still looking at options on getting more motors weather used or new. When your dealing with a big manufacture your at there mercy with the products they sell as to how long they will be available before being discontinued. I posted this in another thread awhile back and might help in finding a motor for you neighbor.

All though Mercury has stopped making the 2 stroke 15 the last production dates I have were made in 2005 and those were the last ones APBA sold. Mercury is required by law to make parts for them for six years after the last production motor was made. There are tons of 9.9/15 used that can be used and got for a reasonable price and with all the parts still available and with APBA still making the conversion kits for them you can put one together for a reasonable price. Add that the Mariner is leagle to use and is the same motor as the Merc makes it even easier to find one. There are more 9.9's out there and by changing the carb and adding the tuner pipe it becomes a 15. Ok now a run down of what to look for, even though it states and 1999 or newer 15 you can actually use any 1995 or newer 9.9/15 motor. Mercury changed the blocks in 1995 and are the same as the newer motors. To make a 1995 to 1998 a legal motor the ign has to be changed to the 1999 or newer style. The stator, flywheel, and switch box are different the trigger and coils are the same. The 1999 or newer 6,8,9.9,15 and 25 all have the same ign and flywheel except the 25 which has a different flywheel. All 1990 and up 6,8,9.9 and 15 have the same crank, rods and pistons except the 6 and 8 hp models which have different pistons. My best motor was pieced together from parts from about 4 differnt year motors and a new replacement block. You can buy new stuff or check on ebay for used parts, I just picked up a complette 2000 ign system for a 25 for 50.00 which is the same as the 15 and last month picked up a new replacement 9.9/15 short block with all the covers and reed box for 300.00 off ebay. As long as there are used motors, conversion kits and Mercury is making parts for them there shouldnt be a problem getting Merc or Mariner motors to race. If anyone needs help or needs a question answered just ask and I will see if I can help.

[mercguy]

news........

I hear you and understand the story, but try explaining all of that to a "never ever" racer before? I already explained that they need to buy a new motor and then have it blueprinted. Now I have to try and expalin that he has to scrounge a motor and then have it blueprinted. I am not saying we won't get this guy....we will I will explain it all.

What I am asking of the J category is....if the program worked once why won't it work again. This is the first people I have gotten into racing from scratch...it is pretty hard to explain the J class to a newbie?

Dean, unfortunately all the NEW smaller HP motors sold in the US (consumer type) are now 4 strokes.........gone are the days of the 15hp 2stroke for use (sale) in the USA (for now).........although Yamaha still makes a couple 2 stroke models under 25hp, but not a big seller, thus dealers are not stocking them.

the only thing I can think of, is allow the use of the 95/96 and newer 9.9/15 Mercs to be converted. YES, they are not NEW, but gives another option. The only choice for a new SMALL HP motor would be the Sidewinder (made for racing only).

this is a problem (no NEW motors available for the J classes, which ARE growing in numbers now) and it definately should be a topic brought up at the Nat. Meeting. Although, there are tons of used OMC's and Mercs out there.

I know a Honda 4 stroke has been tested for racing use (and from what I hear...unsuccessful), but, in the near future, that option (4strokes being used) does need to be addressed.......

[Skoontz]

If I may add a tad from someone who is like Sergeant Schultz...I know Nuth---ing, Nuth----ing....

I've been looking for a 2 stroke Merc for a month or so, and, with that, there are alot more OMC's out there that are suitable to get your neighbors feet wet..
I just cut a deal to buy a pile of usable fishing motors 11 to be exact, for under $1,000.00 at a local marina....Some were even fresh water motors!

You can buy a junker running OMC from between $300 and $800.00. There is, on E-bay right now, a 1986 Evinrude, SS motor, all parts legal wating for conversion, engine starts in one E-bay claim....That motor could be had for $600.00

For $230.00, for example, I got a short 15, with the right block and midsection, changed head, added a hotrod foot, and throttle/steering bar kit and we are off. Total value of the deal, $230 for an engine, $98 for a new legal head. $100 for the throttle kit, $90 for the steering bars. Gear foot, OUCH, $995, adapter bushing $39.00, machine a used driveshaft, $95.00. Sell off the gear foot, -$150, sell the tiller arm, -50.00. total value of the deal, $1,500.00 rounded.
True, we got old stock pistons, rings, bearings....So, the package won't be the fastest on the water...But, it pushes the boat so that if you're ever talked into buying an A hydro when you should have gotten a dedicated J hydro, and your daughter holds the throttle until the 5th octive of Normandy plays through, the motor sticks, you rebuild, and make that one fast, or get more serious and look for the right Merc whilst gaining experience...

Anyhow, what I'm saying is, you don't have to look to far, there are add gearfoot and run motors out there, and there are project motors aas well. whatever turns your crank!

[csh12M]

Is the motor really out of production, or just not for sale?

Is the motor really out of production, or just not sold in the U.S. since 2005. I have heard conflicting information about this point. I thought they were still producing the motor for sale in parts of the world without as stringent emissions regulations.

Is this correct or incorrect?

[mercguy]

Is the motor really out of production, or just not sold in the U.S. since 2005. I have heard conflicting information about this point. I thought they were still producing the motor for sale in parts of the world without as stringent emissions regulations.

Is this correct or incorrect?

as far as I knew, they were out of production. I should have asked my Merc Rep today, when he stopped by. But, you could be right (but, I have doubts, especially since there is a broader range of available outboards outside the USA).....they "might" be being exported to foreign lands, but they (other countries) are getting just as strict also. I doubt (if Merc still made them) that they would be interested in getting the motor EPA approved "for racing use only" here in the US. Tohatsu is making the small motors (4strokes) for Merc now.

maybe Fred H. could shed a little light here........

BTW, someone should have bought this 9.9 on Ebay......smokin' deal and all that would be needed to make it a 15 is a carb swap and add the exhaust tuner for a couple hundredd bucks..........then, resell the lower unit on Ebay to recouple some of the money...........

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...169432635&rd=1

[G Stillwill]

Dont know what year this is its not listed but the decals are the newer style ones and its a long shaft which the tower has to be changed but the not that much for a new one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/15-Ho...spagenameZWDVW

[hydroracer25]

your right...

...wait until he turns 14 and purchase a brand new 125 VRP!!

...and then tell him that from his home in Saline, MI that he'd have to travel an average of about 575 miles to attend the USTS races (per 2007 schedule). Of the 8 USTS races, 6 are during school months and would average about 10-11 hours each way.

Oh yeah, don't forget to tell him that his 14 year old who has probably never driven anything other and a riding lawn mower is going to start racing boats at about 75 mph.

With all due respect David, it is known that there are mulitple 125cc racing engines available for purchase, but it's not for everyone and especially those with young families to have to travel those distances. Growth will only happen with more local races as it makes it a lot easier to sell the "new racer" when they don't have to travel long distances to race their investment.

The APBA J program has been very successful with substantial growth since its inception and very close competition at speeds where these children learn how to drive a boat. AND in this case, it also provides them with the opportunity to race up to 8 times within 4-5 hours of their home.

For the veteran racer that knows where to look or who to contact the issue of J engines may not seem like that big of a deal, but to attract new members (ie. new to the sport), we must make it easy for them to buy an engine (one stop shopping) and go out and pull the cord and race. So let's try to stay on the topic (J-category engine availability).

Mark

[nbass]

Need to think out-of-the Mercury Box

How about a Tohatsu 9.9/15 HP? Since Tohatsu makes the smaller four-cycle engines for Mercury, this might even be simular to the out of production Mercury. See the below site.

http://www.tohatsu.co.jp/en/boat/products/m9_9.html

Neil Bass