J Motors, now what do we do...

[ryan_4z]

...and then tell him that from his home in Saline, MI that he'd have to travel an average of about 575 miles to attend the USTS races (per 2007 schedule). Of the 8 USTS races, 6 are during school months and would average about 10-11 hours each way.

Oh yeah, don't forget to tell him that his 14 year old who has probably never driven anything other and a riding lawn mower is going to start racing boats at about 75 mph.

With all due respect David, it is known that there are mulitple 125cc racing engines available for purchase, but it's not for everyone and especially those with young families to have to travel those distances. Growth will only happen with more local races as it makes it a lot easier to sell the "new racer" when they don't have to travel long distances to race their investment.

The APBA J program has been very successful with substantial growth since its inception and very close competition at speeds where these children learn how to drive a boat. AND in this case, it also provides them with the opportunity to race up to 8 times within 4-5 hours of their home.

For the veteran racer that knows where to look or who to contact the issue of J engines may not seem like that big of a deal, but to attract new members (ie. new to the sport), we must make it easy for them to buy an engine (one stop shopping) and go out and pull the cord and race. So let's try to stay on the topic (J-category engine availability).

Mark

Thank you Mark. It gets very tyring to hear Mr. Weaver suggest the 125cc option EVERY SINGLE TIME that someone expresses interest in racing Stock or J, or the issue of motor availability in these categories arises. I appreciate your enthusiasm to promote your category David, but please, could you have some due appreciation for our categories? Also, Mr. Weaver, don't forget, a number of current Alky drivers were originally groomed in the J classes, so I am sure you can appreciate their importance.

As for the issue at hand, it is certainly a pressing one. Unfortunately, it appears that the "new and available" Mercury is no longer any easier to obtain in racing form than the "old and outated" OMC option. I would imagine that the best opportunity to have a readily available racing engine for the J category would be a Racing Outboards Sidewinder "J" engine. I almost hesitate to bring up that option because I would hate to see this become just another "what's going on with the Sidewinder thread," so I will say no more about that option. As for how to handle this issue in the short term, I think that purchasing engines from the racing public may be the best offer. George S. is widely regarded as the authority on these engines. Perhaps, if asked, he would be able to offer complete, blueprinted racing engines to order. I do not know if it would be viable for him, but he seems to have been quite successful in finding engines and parts, and has certainly been successful in building highly competetive engines. So maybe, at the right price, George, or some other resourceful racers, would be able to supply racing engines to new racers without them having to search and scrounge for parts. Now remember, this is just an idea, I have absolutely no clue whether this is actually possible. Maybe the J commission co-chairs have some ideas on the subject?

[raceright]

Thank you Mark. It gets very tyring to hear Mr. Weaver suggest the 125cc option EVERY SINGLE TIME that someone expresses interest in racing Stock or J, or the issue of motor availability in these categories arises. I appreciate your enthusiasm to promote your category David, but please, could you have some due appreciation for our categories? Also, Mr. Weaver, don't forget, a number of current Alky drivers were originally groomed in the J classes, so I am sure you can appreciate their importance.

As for the issue at hand, it is certainly a pressing one. Unfortunately, it appears that the "new and available" Mercury is no longer any easier to obtain in racing form than the "old and outated" OMC option. I would imagine that the best opportunity to have a readily available racing engine for the J category would be a Racing Outboards Sidewinder "J" engine. I almost hesitate to bring up that option because I would hate to see this become just another "what's going on with the Sidewinder thread," so I will say no more about that option. As for how to handle this issue in the short term, I think that purchasing engines from the racing public may be the best offer. George S. is widely regarded as the authority on these engines. Perhaps, if asked, he would be able to offer complete, blueprinted racing engines to order. I do not know if it would be viable for him, but he seems to have been quite successful in finding engines and parts, and has certainly been successful in building highly competetive engines. So maybe, at the right price, George, or some other resourceful racers, would be able to supply racing engines to new racers without them having to search and scrounge for parts. Now remember, this is just an idea, I have absolutely no clue whether this is actually possible. Maybe the J commission co-chairs have some ideas on the subject?

Not meaning to insult but the current lack of off the shelf engine's has hurt Stock Outboard racing again you realy think someone new wants to rebuild a motor or have to make 50 phone calls to find one ,,remember new people don't love our type of racing as much as we do.

Wake up and smell the coffee another oppertunity is passing by all the effort to have a universal J class is now in trouble. People want to race and people want to buy new ,,guy's make it happen I challange the Stock Commission and the new BOD to find some Off the shelf class to be run in the Stock Division.
Lets not be like a sick druggy and have to hit bottom before we decide to help ourselfs

Pat Wright

[raceright]

...and then tell him that from his home in Saline, MI that he'd have to travel an average of about 575 miles to attend the USTS races (per 2007 schedule). Of the 8 USTS races, 6 are during school months and would average about 10-11 hours each way.

Oh yeah, don't forget to tell him that his 14 year old who has probably never driven anything other and a riding lawn mower is going to start racing boats at about 75 mph.

With all due respect David, it is known that there are mulitple 125cc racing engines available for purchase, but it's not for everyone and especially those with young families to have to travel those distances. Growth will only happen with more local races as it makes it a lot easier to sell the "new racer" when they don't have to travel long distances to race their investment.

The APBA J program has been very successful with substantial growth since its inception and very close competition at speeds where these children learn how to drive a boat. AND in this case, it also provides them with the opportunity to race up to 8 times within 4-5 hours of their home.

For the veteran racer that knows where to look or who to contact the issue of J engines may not seem like that big of a deal, but to attract new members (ie. new to the sport), we must make it easy for them to buy an engine (one stop shopping) and go out and pull the cord and race. So let's try to stay on the topic (J-category engine availability).

Mark

Oh the only difference I see here is new people can buy new and race with the Title series this can be done but to race stock they can't buy new at all
travel or no travel,,
As far as speed I think you might be missing something here as many young kids now play with toy's that run over 70mph in the woods or the local pond---I watched a skate board race and they were reaching speed of 55mph <bike helmets and kneepads for safety and they have sanctioned races>
Give the young kids a little credit alot more of them have been riding with there friends on some fast Quads and dirt bikes and Jet skies.

35 to 40 mph racing does not excite as many kids as you may think is this realy for the kids or the MOM's and Dad's

Pat

[ryan_4z]

Not meaning to insult but the current lack of off the shelf engine's has hurt Stock Outboard racing again you realy think someone new wants to rebuild a motor or have to make 50 phone calls to find one ,,remember new people don't love our type of racing as much as we do.

Wake up and smell the coffee another oppertunity is passing by all the effort to have a universal J class is now in trouble. People want to race and people want to buy new ,,guy's make it happen I challange the Stock Commission and the new BOD to find some Off the shelf class to be run in the Stock Division.
Lets not be like a sick druggy and have to hit bottom before we decide to help ourselfs

Pat Wright

I am not arguing against the point that the lack of available motors is hurting Stock Outboard and now J(which is the issue at hand, not SO), in fact, I am agreeing with it. The fact of the matter is though, that we are not going to find the solution in time to implement it by next year. In the mean time, I think it would be prudent to find a reasonable, if only temporary, solution. That is why I suggested that maybe someone would be able to make some money buy doing the scrounging, and building for the new guys, so they don't have to. If this were feasible, then purchasing a new motor from such a person would be no more difficult than purchasing a motor through APBA has been. In fact, it would quite possibly be more simple, and more cost effective, as that motor could be ordered blueprinted as opposed to factory stock.

[ryan_4z]

Oh the only difference I see here is new people can buy new and race with the Title series this can be done but to race stock they can't buy new at all
travel or no travel,,
As far as speed I think you might be missing something here as many young kids now play with toy's that run over 70mph in the woods or the local pond---I watched a skate board race and they were reaching speed of 55mph <bike helmets and kneepads for safety and they have sanctioned races>
Give the young kids a little credit alot more of them have been riding with there friends on some fast Quads and dirt bikes and Jet skies.

35 to 40 mph racing does not excite as many kids as you may think is this realy for the kids or the MOM's and Dad's

Pat

What would you suggest to a parent whose child is between the ages of 9 and 13? Even if the parents were crazy enough to let such a young child start racing at these speeds, they aren't old enough for 125cc yet. Now, before you say anything about K Pro, just revert back to your own argument on available motors. Remember too, some parents are responsible enough to realize that 35 mph is quite fast to a 9 year old child, and plenty fast enough for them to learn how to safely race a boat.

[raceright]

I am not arguing against the point that the lack of available motors is hurting Stock Outboard and now J(which is the issue at hand, not SO), in fact, I am agreeing with it. The fact of the matter is though, that we are not going to find the solution in time to implement it by next year. In the mean time, I think it would be prudent to find a reasonable, if only temporary, solution. That is why I suggested that maybe someone would be able to make some money buy doing the scrounging, and building for the new guys, so they don't have to. If this were feasible, then purchasing a new motor from such a person would be no more difficult than purchasing a motor through APBA has been. In fact, it would quite possibly be more simple, and more cost effective, as that motor could be ordered blueprinted as opposed to factory stock.

Good Morning Scratch
Yes when you are bleeding a band aid is better than nothing I just think it's time for using more available engines thats all, read your qoute from Hank he is saying the same thing.

Pat

[raceright]

What would you suggest to a parent whose child is between the ages of 9 and 13? Even if the parents were crazy enough to let such a young child start racing at these speeds, they aren't old enough for 125cc yet. Now, before you say anything about K Pro, just revert back to your own argument on available motors. Remember too, some parents are responsible enough to realize that 35 mph is quite fast to a 9 year old child, and plenty fast enough for them to learn how to safely race a boat.

I d agree that 125 is not the place for anyone new to racing to start just look at who win's,(engine tuners,multiple National champs and so on)But the kids who are young and want to race years ago would buy a engine from a local dealer and put on a home made soap box and run around the pond.

Yes there are many other things for kids to race today but there is nothing for the millions of kids to race without many connections in out sport.

This is why I keep challange Stock outboard to do something in this area.

Pat

[David Weaver]

Dear Ryan

Did you notice the little smiley face? I was kidding!! Ha Ha....I know you have a good sense of humor, just allow it work.

Personally, I believe that a healthy, vibrant SO categiry should be the back bone of all outboard racing in the US. And a strong J class is part of that mix (even though J is supposed to "belong" to all of us).

Perhaps it is time to consider a 125 class that is restricted in some form for children to race. The suggestion to use gasoline has been made for a novice 125 class, but the availability of gasoline as a racing fuel concerns me today.

I would say that we are lucky to have Mr. Stilwell and we should utilize is generosity in a respectful manner to grow the J class. Good luck George in your efforts.

[csh12M]

Fact or Fiction

Ok, back to the point...

Does Mercury still produce this motor for global sales. Darren can you talk with your Mercury rep. Mikey Haunstien can you ask dad? Any one else with any first hand knowledge. I think this it the question we have to answer first? I will try and make a few calls today and find out.

Thanks,
Dean

[HRTV]

Did you notice the little smiley face? I was kidding!! Ha Ha....I know you have a good sense of humor, just allow it work.

Personally, I believe that a healthy, vibrant SO categiry should be the back bone of all outboard racing in the US. And a strong J class is part of that mix (even though J is supposed to "belong" to all of us).

Perhaps it is time to consider a 125 class that is restricted in some form for children to race. The suggestion to use gasoline has been made for a novice 125 class, but the availability of gasoline as a racing fuel concerns me today.

I would say that we are lucky to have Mr. Stilwell and we should utilize is generosity in a respectful manner to grow the J class. Good luck George in your efforts.

I like the idea of a restricted 125 class, what do you think the speed might drop down to ? 55 I would argue that anything above 50 -55mph would be way to fast for a novice.

[Skoontz]

Engine availability, is why I found a pile of motors. We have at least 7 new region 12 kids comming up and thus far, motors are borrowed to get them going. We won't have the fastest on the block, but we will have engines that will propell a boat and at least get interest going and feet wet.

Now the redundant part....I've said this one before. So, tell me what is the downside here....With interest in a sport, comes expense. ALLOT OF EXPENSE if you ask me.....

So, regardless of whose legal fishing engine you clamp to the back, you still have a $1,200 expense for a hotrod gear foot. What is the downside of running factory F-N-R grear cases? Props and the APBA prop prgram will be brought up, I know.....But then consider that you can buy alot of 10"-11" stainless props (averaging $175.00 each) for the $1,200 adapted cost you will shell out on the race foot conversion on a usable motor.

The engines a bit deeper, yes....But, run the engine without a restrictor. Your speed will be in line with the 40 that a J motor using a hotrod foot runs, and you have a more turn key (pull rope) situation.

Bare costs on complete ready to go J engines as legal in the rules, if you're lucky you'll be in there for $1,500. more likely, $2,000 and up. The stock engine can be had all day, depending on running or not, for $150-800.00, and a really new motor for the $1,200 mark....

My thoughts are making it easy, and affordable for entry level only. Once a person gets hooked, has the need for speed, hence what happened to KT and I, then upgrade to a more expensive case and build the motor.

Just a thought from a beginner himself. No need for knickers to get in a twist here, I would love to see objective opinions lining out why this would not work, or will not be considered. And no one liners. Please help us understand
exactly what the reason would be for not considering this, with respect to a new driver/family who wishes to enter this awesome sport.

[raceright]

Engine availability, is why I found a pile of motors. We have at least 7 new region 12 kids coming up and thus far, motors are borrowed to get them going. We won't have the fastest on the block, but we will have engines that will propell a boat and at least get interest going and feet wet.

Now the redundant part....I've said this one before. So, tell me what is the downside here....With interest in a sport, comes expense. ALLOT OF EXPENSE if you ask me.....

So, regardless of whose legal fishing engine you clamp to the back, you still have a $1,200 expense for a hotrod gear foot. What is the downside of running factory F-N-R grear cases? Props and the APBA prop prgram will be brought up, I know.....But then consider that you can buy alot of 10"-11" stainless props (averaging $175.00 each) for the $1,200 adapted cost you will shell out on the race foot conversion on a usable motor.



The engines a bit deeper, yes....But, run the engine without a restrictor. Your speed will be in line with the 40 that a J motor using a hotrod foot runs, and you have a more turn key (pull rope) situation.

Bare costs on complete ready to go J engines as legal in the rules, if you're lucky you'll be in there for $1,500. more likely, $2,000 and up. The stock engine can be had all day, depending on running or not, for $150-800.00, and a really new motor for the $1,200 mark....

My thoughts are making it easy, and affordable for entry level only. Once a person gets hooked, has the need for speed, hence what happened to KT and I, then upgrade to a more expensive case and build the motor.

Just a thought from a beginner himself. No need for knickers to get in a twist here, I would love to see objective opinions lining out why this would not work, or will not be considered. And no one liners. Please help us understand
exactly what the reason would be for not considering this, with respect to a new driver/family who wishes to enter this awesome sport.

There is to much concern for winning in the J class this is to be a get your kid started class most kids who start in Quads,Dirt bikes and so on don't win
for quite some time..
But the boat racing parents of some of our children go all out to have there kid up front just look at the names of the kids who win.
Come on how could you expect to win if you do not have connections.
I submit that the J's only give older boat racers children some place to have some fun and not much good at attracting new Blood..If you know of any
kids that started without help from related people such as uncle Bob or maybe aunt Barbara or Dad or Mom well thats great but probably not to prevalent. This should be the goal for APBA add new Blood.

Pat

[CSR4C]

Here's what could be done!

1. Sidewinder has new gearcases.
2. APBA has conversion kits.
3. There are used Mercury 15 hp motors.
4. George Stillwell has the knowledge & know-how.

The APBA J Committee could fund the building of two race-ready Mercury J motors by Mr. Stillwell. When one sells, use proceeds to build the next one and so on. The rest of us could keep an eye open for deals on used 15 h.p. Mercrurys for the project.

Darrell Sorensen

[raceright]

1. Sidewinder has new gearcases.
2. APBA has conversion kits.
3. There are used Mercury 15 hp motors.
4. George Stillwell has the knowledge & know-how.

The APBA J Committee could fund the building of two race-ready Mercury J motors by Mr. Stillwell. When one sells, use proceeds to build the next one and so on. The rest of us could keep an eye open for deals on used 15 h.p. Mercrurys for the project.

Darrell Sorensen

What is the reasoning behind this type of keeping it alive how will this add to numbers???

[ryan_4z]

What is the reasoning behind this type of keeping it alive how will this add to numbers???

This would make the motor readily available. If the motor is available for purchase, does it really matter who from? We have to get out of the mindset that our motors must be available from your local dealer, those days are gone.