Ernie Dawe PLEASE WAKE UP???

[mercguy]

out of production???

motors for stock outboard racing
JSH&JSR OMC not in production MERC not in production
ASH&ASR omc end of road out of production
25SSH merc out of production
25ssR merc out of production thank god for the 302 but wait! out of production
BSR&BSR hotrod out of production

20SSH YAMATO80 out of production
CSH&CSR 102 OUT OF PRODUCTION
DSH merc out of production



SOUNDS LIKE YOU BOY'S BETTER PAY ATT' AND VOTE

what does that have to do with much of anything? There are a **** load of OMC "A" and Merc "A" motors out there to build a racing engine out of!

Merc and OMC made a **** load of motors that you can still built a racing motor out of (OMC 15, Merc 15, OMC 25, Merc 44, etc). Are there some parts that cannot be readily obtained....YES, but they are out there, just look!

as to the DSH deal........you can buy a BRAND NEW Bass Tohatsu for DSH.................all you gotta do is open up your wallet, just like ANY other sport!


20SSH.........go buy a Yamato 302........it won the NAt's in 20SSH and CSH and Montoya has about a 100 of them for sale................

CSH and CSR....buy a 302, Rick has lots of them for sale and they are the dominant motor for CSR and CSH (eventualy)......

wining ain't cheap..........in ANY sport!

PS: if you know Ernie Dawe AT ALL, you will realize he has the best interest of the J class at heart (no matter what engine is dominant). Ernie is one of the biggest assets to SO racing there is..............and does NOT deserve ANY kind of riducule!

[ricochet112]

Skoontz, you need to listen!

It's hard to when one doesn't stop informing others on how much they know about EVERYTHING.
I Gave up!

[Skoontz]

I'm listening, belive it or not........And no one ever said anything is wrong with a class in the context of this thread....You don't need to be wrong, or right to make anything better. Being better, or for that matter worse, has nothing to do with wrong or right it has to do with results, which are the basis of moving to the next level.....
Like it or not, restrictor plates suck....End of that discussion. It's like asking a guy in a wheel chair to run the Boston Marathon..... No one (me) is telling anyone how much they know about anything....Does anyone ever disclose the how what and why any engine runs better to anyone? I'm telling you if you choose to see, there is, can be a better way in any class....That's all.

And you're right, we need to find water (after painting) so we can continue the testing program. No one in the class, or on commitee seems to ever be willing change staus quo, so, as I said, this is for me to keep my sanity!

I'm thinking 44 and change in J with our motor is right in the ballpark. And that's using the choke collar, as the class dictates. I'm betting myself, no one else, that we can legally hit 46. Realistic or not, if you don't set goals, you'll never reach them, right? So, right left, or center, that a what we are a guna try to do.....

Honestly, I think Ernie built this boat to run A class...So, let us see what it can do in slower classes, just for yucks.... Someday soon KT sill be in 45, sheezz gunna take her capsule training the next time region 12 offers it...And after that, she will run D mod and or, D alky. That's the long term goals.....

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Dave ???

Hey Dave , how ya' been? what was the deal on the Js at that race in centralia? where they used the wrong size resricter, as per rules but since we don't dis. kids and i agree it was all good.
Just the facts Mam, just the facts,i think that was Joe Friday what a name.
RichardKCMo

J is the most frustrating class I have ever seen. I have seen the dissapointment on both the kids faces and fathers faces when they can't plane off. I have seen the dissapointment on not being able to compete. It is called boat racing and the object is to win. I agree J is a learning class, but most kids want to do well. Perhpas the first year or even maybe the second year they are content with the excitment of being in a race boat and riding around. What do you tell them when they want to run out front and you can't find a motor to do it without mortgaging your house. Should we really expect to grow grass roots racing when you tell a parent they will need to go through 10 engines to find a good one. We all see folks on here looking for J engines and how hard they are to find if you are not part of the clique. Hmmm.....

I think if you elminate the frustrations of planning off first you will have a lot more happy families. I for one can't stand the fact that the rig's set up does not change, and they draw a new prop and can't plane off.... that drove us away from the class, for good.

I don't know the answers completely, nor pretend to know them. The easiest way out is to wait a few years, skip the J program and move into some other class with out dated engines. Then you can test. Testing with J's is practically useless. You can't spend the weekend at the lake testing the APBA J props because you don't own them. And the test props you can buy are much different somehow than the race props. Same dam set up same dam boat, same driver, same everything except prop, and the gps says it is 3mph slow, and the next race prop they get they can't plane. This is just some experiences I have had with the stock J recently. There has to be a better way to do this than make the parents hair fall out and gray up. Frustrating does not even begin to cover it.

One more answer, go K Pro. Run your own props and your testing will mean something other than a boat ride.

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

What???

Hillaary , and snow Scares Me., because i haven't gotten over the pizza bill from the last time they tryed to help me.
What ever else you do is O. K.
RichardKCMo

It's hard to when one doesn't stop informing others on how much they know about EVERYTHING.
I Gave up!

[Big Don]

[QUOTE=Skoontz;87703]


I'm thinking 44 and change in J with our motor is right in the ballpark. And that's using the choke collar, as the class dictates. I'm betting myself, no one else, that we can legally hit 46. Realistic or not, if you don't set goals, you'll never reach them, right? So, right left, or center, that a what we are a guna try to do.....

H/QUOTE]

If your J is going 44 and you think you can get 46 then why even complain... You're already 3 faster then the rest of the country, at 46 you'll have 5 on everyone. Good to have goals but not unrealistic ones.

[sax555]

My Be Wrong

Daren First of all I like Enie very much . and will stand by his views. BUT every nigth in the pits. It was always the same convertion on how fast the mercs have gotten. So Ithougth I would ask? And buy the respone of this tread. It needed ASK!! And if I am wrong I'll be the first one to fess up!

Bob Saxvik

[Brian10s]

WOW! I did not know that the J's were even hitting 40 mph much less more. That is quick, no matter who you are. 20 plus years ago, my JU never smelled 30 mph unless it was on the trailer rolling down the highway.

It would be interesting to see the speed differences in each class over a period of time, say 20 yrs. I know we all are working our tails off to get that next 1-2 mph every year but how much is it adding up over the course of time?

Anyone remember what the "ballpark" speeds were back in '87 for each class?

[Howie Nichols]

My reasons for JH

I have a multitude of reasons for getting involved in J. First I was asked to be on the J committee before my daughter was old enough to race. I started in JSR with the 60J and learned alot so I wanted to see the current and future J kids were able to go have fun as and leearn as well. Did I have a few races that broke my heart due to not getting on plane ... absolutely. My daughter (a 4th generation APBA member) tried to test at 9 and just wasn't ready so she backed off and waited, I continued to stay on the J committee to be able to help the kids out there find something they could enjoy as much as some of the rest of us. 1 year later she came to me (and I had written off the idea) and asked to try and test again. I bought all the equipment she would need. A good boat and one of my favorites (Furnal Flyer), this was an ASH. An OMC motor, and all the safety equipment. She tested and loved it!

Our deal ... The first 2 years she races she will go out, have fun, learn how to drive, learn how to set up the rig, and learn about the sport and what it takes to succeed. I told her very little money would be put towards her equipment until year 3, and that was if she wanted to continue to race and I felt as though she was ready to move up and go faster. She agreed and realized (at 10 years old!) how important these aspects are. She also understood more than anything else that winning was not as important as her being able to have fun, go out and come back all in one piece. She has come a long way since her first time out but still has alot to look forward to and learn.

There were 2 reasons why I chose the OMC motor, 1. I was more comfortable working on that engine vs the Mercury and 2. She could use this engine in J / AXS / and eventually A. The engine had more possibilities than the Merc did.

It was mentioned earlier to put the kids into K-PRO. I am one of the many that do not approve of that class for 11 year olds. The speeds they reach are as fast as or faster than the current ASH class and then they do not need to add lead into the boat. I feel as though it is dangerous to send out a child no matter how mature they seem in something they are not ready to handle. Things happen a lot quicker as the speed increases, we all know how dangerous the sport can be and I for one am not ready to injure or kill a kid just because it is a faster class that I can do more "tweaking in." They need to progress through the ranks, learn what the boat will do and how it will react before setting out at a pace that they may or may not be able to handle. I have also been told, well just leave the restrictor plate in and let her go... NO WAY! To me that is even more ludicrous to have her out there with boats going anywhere from 10-15 mph faster than she is, what happens when she goes into a turn 50 feet ahead of the real K-PRO, she broaches then the next boat has no where to go and has closed the gap to mere feet. I shudder at the thought....

Our set up...kick it under 1/8-1/4" and put the height near the top of the prop shaft not right in the center of it, get her on plane every heat and let her go have FUN!!!! Isn't this one of the reasons we all do this? Have fun, be with our 2nd family, and spend time with our families as well? Granted I got into this as a 3rd generation driver so I was born into the sport but this is how I sell it to new people. If not perhaps I have missed the point over the past 30 years of my racing career.

Bash me if you will, these are my thoughts....

Proud J dad

[Dave M]

10s

WOW! I did not know that the J's were even hitting 40 mph much less more. That is quick, no matter who you are. 20 plus years ago, my JU never smelled 30 mph unless it was on the trailer rolling down the highway.

It would be interesting to see the speed differences in each class over a period of time, say 20 yrs. I know we all are working our tails off to get that next 1-2 mph every year but how much is it adding up over the course of time?

Anyone remember what the "ballpark" speeds were back in '87 for each class?

The speeds of the J Hydros has been over 40MPH for quite a few years now....... AXSH is over the 50MPH mark as well in case you were wondering. Not sure on ASH as I have zero expereince there.

NBRA Novice class runs right around 50MPH in a larger boat than the APBA J's. Min length is 10feet. THey all run the Y80 boat and engine, with the engine restricted. It planes easily and it is a good ride, hard to get into trouble with that big of a boat at the slower speeds. Not saying it can't happen, but the results would seem to be less severe if it did. I know the NBRA wants to slow the Novice class fown to around 45 MPH max. They are researching ways to accomplish this to be presented at the Nat meeting this year. THis way both organizations will have speeds close to the same and be able to cross over much easier having a chance to compete at the front.

I still feel cost is a big issue why this grass roots racing does not grow leaps and bounds. It is right on the brink of being too expensive for the average income if you want to run up front. Just my opinion on that. I know a lot will disagree on that.

[ddh]

How many merc j motor are available to be purchased if they are out of production??????
DD Haney

[G Stillwill]

I think as of this weekend they still have 4 new ones and 36 conversion kits. Mercury has alot of EPA credit points since they went almost all four stroke with there line of motors so I think they could still sell some of the export 15's in this country to APBA if needed.

[ricochet112]

Mr Stillwill, didn't you tell me the OMC's were still about 1 mph faster than the Mercs on top end?

The old 2 blade Kilo record was 42.75 by Kyle Hannon, the current 3 blade Kilo record is 38.83 by Aaron Peterson, both are by OMC's.

Mike Bartlett

[Tony Staron]

Tony,
I'm sure your first on the list for Racing Outboards to get a Sidewinder! Keep up that constructive criticism and positive reinforcement!

Matt, I was waiting in line when RacingOutboards commitment to producing the HOTROD WAS not fulfilled. If the company was Mercury/OMC/ and so on, THE SORC would have pulled the plug. RacingOutboard has fail to make any of their commitments to present date. I'm not being negative just stating FACTS!

Tony

[Tony Staron]

The single most important facture in this discussion is HONESTY. When a new person enters the sport and starts to ac***ulate equipment, he has to have guidance by veteran racers. If he is told, up front, the truth about his options, he can make an informed decision. He should be told that in the J classes, that the Mercury is, and will be, the dominant motor. If your goal is to learn how to race a boat, the OMC is fine. If however the goal is to WIN, the merc is the motor to buy. As long as new people are guided and informed, and not get screwed by somebody trying to unload there junk, we stand a good chance of retaining these new people. Most of the time, winning is more important to the father than the kid, they just want to have a good time ( at least the first couple of years ).

John, IF we are being honest to new racers and present racers. Why on March 17, 2007 RacingOutboards Rep state in Quote The new sidewinder will be avalible for sale in 5 weeks. I have a cousin that was very interested in racing and he was going to buy a sidewinder. Now he's probably not going to race, because he thinks a company should produce what they make public. Just food for thought. John does your brain ever get tried from immediate using it ?

Tony