Don't let Region 6 kill Sidewinder

[17W]

You bet!

[I]
3. What if you do get transferred to Region 7? (Would that get Backus out of semi-retirement)

The 2 of east coast guys together week in & week out will make many friends in the pits.....Gladkowski will fly in for all the mid-west races as well.

[schmitzer]

Can I play Too?

With no available inventory right now. Where do you buy a newly imported 302 for C and 20 right now? I only ask the question because everything is What if scenerios.

1. What if the SW goes 70?
2. What if the 302 is set to 3/4" in 20 and the 80 can compete?
3. What if people actually will spend $5000 for a motor?
4. What if we have drivers for C and cannot get a 302?
5. What if we have drivers for 20 and cannot get a 302?
6. What if SW could deliver you a race ready motor in 7 days?
7. What if we have interest in 302SSH and Yamato cannot or will not meet demand with the current platform?
8. What if they can't find a good used boat for 302SSH but already have a boat for 20 SW?
9. What if we just left everything in stock alone for 2 years?
10. What if we let everything play out for one year?
11. What if APBA took over all of the good classes to promote as is and left the table scraps to the categories to promote?


I’ll try and answer these questions.

1. It may go 70, probably will, which will be good if it’s in with the 25’s.
2. Maybe it should if people are struggling at ½ inch with the 302’s. We have not gone the 302 direction so I have no firsthand knowledge out of our trailer. But, it probably would hurt our teammates, but that is OK if it’s for the good of the class.
3. Not sure I get the point of this question. But we know some will spend it. Let’s not forget though, that almost 80% of our drivers race a class less than 8 times. Which is the large majority and they need to be protected also or you or I will have no one to race against.
4. We will cross that bridge if it happens. While I think you do need to be forward thinking at some things, we can’t assume anything at this point in regards to not being able to get 302’s.
5. See above
6. That’s great.
7. See 4 & 5
8. ?????????
9. Nope, we don’t have a solid plan. We come up with a plan that great let’s lock it in.
10. Nope, it’s another year of confusion.
11. Interesting.

My turn

1. What if we find out that the 80% who race 8 times or less don’t want to spend 5000.00 on engines. These are also the guys you & I and others sell our used boats to and they don’t want to spend 3500.00/4000.00 on new boat either?
2. What if Backus decided to come back and race? (I just want to make sure he’s paying attention)
3. What if you do get transferred to Region 7? (Would that get Backus out of semi-retirement)
4. What if Troy buys a B & H. (once again making sure Troy is paying attention)

To answer Big Dons questions.
1. Being one the 80% category. No, I do not want spend 5000.00 on motor. Could but than I would have to leave the kids home, that no worky. I really want to spend 4000.00 on a new boat, no worky, kids left home again.
2. I'll soap up good before each heat.
3. I'll buy the beer and hope to make a friend.
4. Than he really will be able to fly.

[bill boyes]

This has gone on for a long time. I realize the Fat Lady has not sung yet. But you two, "Pav and Big Don" have killed or will kill the SW in 20ss or is it BSH?. No one answered my question about 20ss or B.
Seems you guys should just build moat around Regions 6 and & 7 and do your own thing. Quite trying to dictate what other racers in Regions are doing or what to do. You two have blinders on and only see what is directly in front of you.
I foresee the 20SW being in "B". The Y80 will fade away into "B" mod and 20ssh with the 302 will merge into the 302ssh class.
So build the moat and keep the 20ssh in Region 6/7.
Forget trying to save the 25 class. Bury it and move on.
I am done this.

[Apachemax]

With no available inventory right now. Where do you buy a newly imported 302 for C and 20 right now? I only ask the question because everything is What if scenerios.

What if the SW goes 70?
What if the 302 is set to 3/4" in 20 and the 80 can compete?
What if people actually will spend $5000 for a motor?
What if we have drivers for C and cannot get a 302?
What if we have drivers for 20 and cannot get a 302?
What if SW could deliver you a race ready motor in 7 days?
What if we have interest in 302SSH and Yamato cannot or will not meet demand with the current platform?
What if they can't find a good used boat for 302SSH but already have a boat for 20 SW?
What if we just left everything in stock alone for 2 years?
What if we let everything play out for one year?
What if APBA took over all of the good classes to promote as is and left the table scraps to the categories to promote?

What if the carb was on the front? Maybe then people wouldn't be so hesitant spend 5k for a motor...

[pav225]

What if Bill believed that what we are doing is actually good for the class throughout the country...and not just in our Region??

[pav225]

Bill,
I believe BSH is remaining as is. The restricted 20ci SW ,seems to be a great motor for the class. Some may argue that it needs some tweaking for parity with the Hot Rod...but I'm not opening that can of worms.

Mike

[Big Don]

Why is this a Pav & Big Don only issue? Because we put our names on it? Because the large percentage of racers do not say anything publicly, for fear that anyone that does not agree with them will give them crap. Why would anyone want to stand up for anything? (I’m no different) The difference is I tend to not hold any grudges unless it becomes personal. It’s the reason the same 20 people are the ones posting on every one of these controversial topics. Like we have said before this was not an easy decision, we listened too many individuals and decided we would be the gate keeper so to speak and take the heat. If that means doing what we and others think is best, then so be it. Trust me I’m not losing any sleep over what you or anyone else thinks of me. How is leaving it up to a vote dictating what others what? They will vote and the majority will win. As we said before, if the vote does not go in favor of removing the engine than it’s what the drivers wanted. So 20ssH drivers had better vote.

The positives have far outweighed the negatives in the comments I have had sent my way. The two of you that sent unsigned letters…because you were not man enough to sign them, your opinions mean nothing.

15 states have had drivers send in petitions, that pretty much covers (and then some) all the states that have racing in them.

The drivers will decide the fate of their class. Sorry you guys don’t think that is fair.

Our family can go many direction, 302ssH, CSH, B Mod, C Mod, Sidewinder, but I know 80% of the drivers can’t or won’t, and that is why we are representing them on this and trying to do what many think is best.

If the SORC had only shown a good direction and made it clear what they intended to do over the past several years we could have avoided this. Can you all not see what a mess the A class has been, we didn’t want that again. If their intention was to make the Sidewinder the engine of choice in 20, they should have come out and said that, then the drivers would have known the direction. Instead it was causing confusion. Wither we think it or not we do set direction by our actions even if we don’t come right out and say it.

[daveracerdsh]

302ssh

One minor point.....the 302SSH committee will insure that motors will be available for the class. I promise you that much. Dave

[schmitzer]

Does everyone make 200k a year? Not I

Why is this a Pav & Big Don only issue? Because we put our names on it? Because the large percentage of racers do not say anything publicly, for fear that anyone that does not agree with them will give them crap. Why would anyone want to stand up for anything? (I’m no different) The difference is I tend to not hold any grudges unless it becomes personal. It’s the reason the same 20 people are the ones posting on every one of these controversial topics. Like we have said before this was not an easy decision, we listened too many individuals and decided we would be the gate keeper so to speak and take the heat. If that means doing what we and others think is best, then so be it. Trust me I’m not losing any sleep over what you or anyone else thinks of me. How is leaving it up to a vote dictating what others what? They will vote and the majority will win. As we said before, if the vote does not go in favor of removing the engine than it’s what the drivers wanted. So 20ssH drivers had better vote.

The positives have far outweighed the negatives in the comments I have had sent my way. The two of you that sent unsigned letters…because you were not man enough to sign them, your opinions mean nothing.

15 states have had drivers send in petitions, that pretty much covers (and then some) all the states that have racing in them.

The drivers will decide the fate of their class. Sorry you guys don’t think that is fair.

Our family can go many direction, 302ssH, CSH, B Mod, C Mod, Sidewinder, but I know 80% of the drivers can’t or won’t, and that is why we are representing them on this and trying to do what many think is best.

If the SORC had only shown a good direction and made it clear what they intended to do over the past several years we could have avoided this. Can you all not see what a mess the A class has been, we didn’t want that again. If their intention was to make the Sidewinder the engine of choice in 20, they should have come out and said that, then the drivers would have known the direction. Instead it was causing confusion. Wither we think it or not we do set direction by our actions even if we don’t come right out and say it.

First I want to thank PAV and BIG DON for doing this. Stand up and speak for cost affective boat racing. I returned the letter that was sent to me the same day, don't know I've ever done that. Without affordable classes some of us will not be able to race. Is this by choice, no. Its the cold hard fact that fuel prices, entry fees and everything else in this world keeps getting more expensive. Anyone who has ever grabbed on to and clamped a deadmans throttle knows it is the most fun anyone can have, with your clothes on. Does anyone miss races because they have better things to do, don't think so. Comes down to priorities, which bills get paid and how much is left to go have fun with my kids. Yamoto motors, probably saved racing, J program, best thing we ever did. The new 302ss, had I been 2 yrs later it would have been my choice. 20ss, let it remain the affordable class that it is. Don't forget that 80%, whos pocket do have bottoms, we enjoy it as much you do, we just sleep in tents or our trailers. And again, THANK YOU PAV and BIG DON.
Respectfully
Alex L Schmitzer

[PittmanRacing]

Here is an idea. Make the SW as reliable as a Yamato, Mercury, or OMC. Racers will buy them and race them. Seems that any effort to save the largest classes where the SW is trying to be an option gets painted as "anti-SW". I would love to see the SW work in the classes it was originally designed to run in. OK, if it doesn't work to run a 15 SW against a 15 hot rod, put in a 20 SW to save the class. Just don't mess with the other classes with so many good options available for new and upcoming racers. Focus on reliability and reduce how sensitive it is to weather, temp, humidity, etc. Save that stuff for the Pro category. That is what the AX/J and Yamatos do. They don't have to be re-jetted for every race to compete.

Do you all realize how many "barriers to entry" our sport has? Why is 302SSH and J/AX working? A new racer can figure it out enough to play fairly quickly. The outstanding driver's schools and help from all the racers really help overcome these barriers as well.

Paul Pittman

[brill27]

one minor point.....the 302ssh committee will insure that motors will be available for the class. I promise you that much. Dave

why did sorc think it was fair to go buy up all the 302 moters for 302ssh and not leave any available for mod racers and stock guys who race c and 20.there are some folks very upset about this.i heard about this at my club meeting a few weeks ago.

[Apachemax]

why did sorc think it was fair to go buy up all the 302 moters for 302ssh and not leave any available for mod racers and stock guys who race c and 20.there are some folks very upset about this.i heard about this at my club meeting a few weeks ago.

Didnt the SORC buy 8 302s from the UK dealer to be sealed and sold? Meanwhile, Ric is working on a batch of 30 unsealed 302s?
Thats the situation currently, to my knowledge.

[daveracerdsh]

302SSH/Stock outboarding

The SORC purchased 8 302 Yamato motors from England for use in the new 302 super stock hydro class. This is not taking motors away from other classes, such as c stock and 20 ss. Ric Montoya will have new 302 motors available for sale some time in the spring. 302SSH is a different animal from other stock classes...I do not need to go in detail here, all of the info on it is on the APBA website. Sort of of topic I suppose, but we need to keep in mind that this class is attracting new racers that will provide a broad base for stock outboard racing in the future. I am a little suprised that anybody would complain about this. Dave

[94H]

Dave,
302SSH is not a sidewinder/20 topic so let's talk at the National meeting.

I didn't know that Ricky Montoya was out of engines until last month. We needed two engines for 500Mod and there wasn't one for sale on the planet - scary. This should be a new thread for HR but let's wait to see what happens with Ricky. Please keep us posted on the 302 availability. Scott Reed makes a valid observation on stock and mod class growth if the 302 availability is limited.

FYI - 302SSH and drivers school are great ideas for getting new drivers and will be included at the Indiana Mod / Stock / Pro races this year.
BK

[14J]

[I]4. What if Troy buys a B & H. (once again making sure Troy is paying attention)

I'm still here in the shadows. Prepping to test my 20CI 20 Hydro ride before the first snow.