Don't let Region 6 kill Sidewinder

[Matt Dagostino]

Right On

If I was a newbee considering racing, I would never ever consider joining a class with more than one approved motor. Even in a one motor class, IMO you need a second motor to know if the first one is a worldbeater or a dud. So now I need to buy two 302's and two SW's? And probably two Y80's, because I'd guess the Y80 is faster on some courses and the 302 on others (?)
IMO a big part of racing is understanding where your program is lacking-boat, motor, propeller. Having more than one approved motor makes this very difficult and to me would keep me out of a class.
Cheers,
Ken F.

And here we have it!! Well said from the 'newbie'. You should run for the Stock Outboard Racing Commission.

[Big Don]

Ken, welcome to this mess

While I agree one engine is best, there is no way the SORC would ever do that. But what Matt said...you should consider getting on the SORC. Maybe our chairman would appoint you?

Good seeing you in NY.

[Big Don]

Mr Perman, you and others just don’t see it from our view, which is fine. This is one of those issues where the line is drawn and people are either on one side or the other. There is not much middle ground on this one. You’ll probably never come over to this side and the people that think it needs to be removed will most likely never think it’s a good thing having it in there.

We can all keep discussing this, going back and forth, but we need to come up with a plan for the 20S engine if this passes, which I fully expect it to.

So let focus on what we are going to do moving forward. Where are we going to put the 20S engine if this passes so it’s successful?

Is 25 the answer? In a class by itself? Just let it go to the 15 class with a restrictor?

[reed28n]

Plans have been made before

Mr Perman, you and others just don’t see it from our view, which is fine. This is one of those issues where the line is drawn and people are either on one side or the other. There is not much middle ground on this one. You’ll probably never come over to this side and the people that think it needs to be removed will most likely never think it’s a good thing having it in there.

We can all keep discussing this, going back and forth, but we need to come up with a plan for the 20S engine if this passes, which I fully expect it to.

So let focus on what we are going to do moving forward. Where are we going to put the 20S engine if this passes so it’s successful?

Is 25 the answer? In a class by itself? Just let it go to the 15 class with a restrictor?

The correct way to address this issue was within your commission and lobbying for change though your commission and the elected representatives of your commission that represent the members in the category as a whole. You have chosen to side step that path.

If each class is allowed to vote itself on only the merrits and desires of its own class then we don not need categories or commissions. Your movement is against your category and commission. There is no vision for the good of the whole category here it is only about the singular class and a small groups view for a percentage of the category. The commission serves as over sight to all the stock classes.

If you want to be part of the solution, then lobby these elected officials or get elected yourself. Heck get a bunch of you all elected and make change happen the way Ed Hearn changed the direction when he outsted me. That is the way change is intended to happen within Stock Outboard. Individuals in one class should never be allowed to go to the BOD for this type of change. And it actually has nothing to do with what side of the issue you are on. It is about being apart of your category and your APBA.

If you only have time to get concerned about your one class then sign that petition and go to the BOD right away.

If you don't want to undermine the folks that step up to get elected and spend their time for the good of stock outboard, then ignore the petiton and get your commissioner on the phone to work out the issues of your class.

[Big Don]

Scott, we did try going the SORC route. In Seattle when it was approved we had elected our commissioners and discussed it prior. We had also talked to other SORC members and were told they would not put it in the 20 class. Our position has not changed since then and it became even stronger listening to the current drivers and prospects. When the vote came at the Seattle meeting, we were shocked that we were double crossed.

We waited in the wings figuring it would correct itself because many of us were lead to believe it was only temporary. After talking to others we were not convinced it would happen any time soon. Therefore we took the course we did.

We can't keep changing our minds, it has too many sitting back and waiting. Like we said, we knew it wouldn't go over well with some and others it would.

[mercguy]

I agree. The Merc 25xs ride is challenging in my opinion also. The 20ci Sidewinder ride is however smooth and comfortable. The 'racing' flywheel on the Sidewinder and racing lower unit lend itself to a fast and safe ride!!

The SW has a "racing flywheel"???? As far as I can tell they all have the flywheel and ignition system from an 8hp Johnson 2stroke fishing motor....

[reed28n]

Noise...

Scott, we did try going the SORC route. In Seattle when it was approved we had elected our commissioners and discussed it prior. We had also talked to other SORC members and were told they would not put it in the 20 class. Our position has not changed since then and it became even stronger listening to the current drivers and prospects. When the vote came at the Seattle meeting, we were shocked that we were double crossed.

We waited in the wings figuring it would correct itself because many of us were lead to believe it was only temporary. After talking to others we were not convinced it would happen any time soon. Therefore we took the course we did.

We can't keep changing our minds, it has too many sitting back and waiting. Like we said, we knew it wouldn't go over well with some and others it would.

You tried but didn't like the result. Again this initiative is only one class. Establishing this path will begin the end of Stock Outboard. Each class will independently govern itself. So you are stating that you only wish to reap the benefits of the rest of our membership to keep all the other costs of your racing in check. APBA will provide sanctions, insurance, scoring, Hall of Champions......and everything else. But your class will decide what is good for your class only.

Your approach is the height of hypocrisy.

[B Walker]

Apba 2.0

Why do we need a Stock Outboard Racing Commission at all?

Just cut out the middle man and make all rule proposals ballot items to be either voted on by effected class members or all drivers if they are general rules.

Bone-us: no need for a national meeting either.

(see what I did there)

The basic problem is that there is nobody in any elected position in APBA that is elected and empowered to support the actual mission and by-laws of the charter. Or, more simply stated: nobody that is elected has a duty to support the mission of APBA as an entirety. They represent the interests of the people that put them in the position.

I cant state the problems of growth in APBA any simpler than the people elected to represent the racers don't have to represent the mission of APBA. Therefore, nobody advocates for the mission of the organization which is to grow, support and develop the sport.

Brad Walker

[25xs seeya!]

You tried but didn't like the result. Again this initiative is only one class. Establishing this path will begin the end of Stock Outboard. Each class will independently govern itself. So you are stating that you only wish to reap the benefits of the rest of our membership to keep all the other costs of your racing in check. APBA will provide sanctions, insurance, scoring, Hall of Champions......and everything else. But your class will decide what is good for your class only.

Your approach is the height of hypocrisy.

Plus,,, and this is just a question, aren't you ( big don) the race team that put different rings into the merc 15 for the first time and got caught at the nationals with them,, then there was a rule change to allow them " any Oem ring" and that changed the merc to beat the OMC every time??? It's is just a question, but i think whoever it was had a big hand in changing stock outboard, there was a big domino effect from there on, and every one involved thinks that it was "ok", I think it was more insider bull s"it

[Big Don]

You tried but didn't like the result. Again this initiative is only one class. Establishing this path will begin the end of Stock Outboard. Each class will independently govern itself. So you are stating that you only wish to reap the benefits of the rest of our membership to keep all the other costs of your racing in check. APBA will provide sanctions, insurance, scoring, Hall of Champions......and everything else. But your class will decide what is good for your class only.

Your approach is the height of hypocrisy.

And your approach and a few others is better, shove stuff down the members throats when they don't need it? The class had an available engine. That's what your not getting. Just like A had in the Mercury and you and your group tried to derail that. You are correct, I nor the members like the results because we were lied too and it was not needed.

Tell me this, how are you looking out for the majority by approving this engine in the 20 class? How is that setting a clear path by having two available engines? How is that helping the sport?

[pav225]

Your approach is the height of hypocrisy.

Thanks for another lecture from your high pedestal.

[pav225]

Plus,,, and this is just a question, aren't you ( big don) the race team that put different rings into the merc 15 for the first time and got caught at the nationals with them,, then there was a rule change to allow them " any Oem ring" and that changed the merc to beat the OMC every time??? It's is just a question, but i think whoever it was had a big hand in changing stock outboard, there was a big domino effect from there on, and every one involved thinks that it was "ok", I think it was more insider bull s"it

Wrong Team.

[Big Don]

Plus,,, and this is just a question, aren't you ( big don) the race team that put different rings into the merc 15 for the first time and got caught at the nationals with them,, then there was a rule change to allow them " any Oem ring" and that changed the merc to beat the OMC every time??? It's is just a question, but i think whoever it was had a big hand in changing stock outboard, there was a big domino effect from there on, and every one involved thinks that it was "ok", I think it was more insider bull s"it

No that was not us! Not at all. We ran stock Mercury rings. I think you need to make sure you have your facts correct before throwing out nonsense like that.

By the way, who are you, sign your name.

[25xs seeya!]

Ok, wrong team, sorry don,, point is that crap like that happens within stock outboard and that's the crap that puts a real bad taste in the mouths of the joe racer just trying to keep up,, speed wise,, whatever,, you get my point

[25xs seeya!]

------------------- just an idiot in michigan who knows nothing of the sport of boat racing,,, Todd