Don't let Region 6 kill Sidewinder

[runabout333]

In all 12 pages of this post,, there has been no mention of using the
20 c.i. Hot Rod... Does it not have a place somewhere again in racing??
There must be plenty of them around,,, or at least blocks,,, heads,, carbs, and
pistons with rings. Somewhere is the last month,,, there was a post about the
20c.i. being finicky.. Nobody tried to throw me under the bus then and I hope not now.
My last APBA card was 1994.. Have been out of the loop. But,, why did the
20 c.i. Hot Rod get thrown out?? I do know the Y-80 became the motor of choice in B-Mod.. Can it be used somewhere in a stock class??

[daveracerdsh]

Mike/Don

I do appreciate you guys sending info out to us before this all came out to the general racing public. I also understand that you both feel that going directly to the membership is the best way to achieve your goals. I just feel that they way this is being handled is going to come back and bite us in the butt big time in the very near future. I think I have pretty much said what is on my mind over the issue. And I did make it home safely from Hawaii....came back 4 days early to take care of some business etc. Hawaii is not what it was a few years ago....there is definatly a rough edge to the place as I found out the hard way. Dave

[pav225]

Dave,
Hope all is OK!

Mike

[daveracerdsh]

Hawaii

Mike...ya things are ok. I got mugged coming out of an eatery in Waikiki..had to spend the night in the hospital with a concussion. Pretty weird stuff. I was wearing some vintage Nike Air Jordans.....and for whatever reason Japan loves these things. I went online and found out the shoes I was wearing sell for over 2k in Japan. Go figure. I have had these things for ages. I got jumped by two Hapa dudes....and they wanted my shoes. Two 130 pound little hapas against a 155 lb white boy does not usualy end up well. lol. Hey....I got some really really neat shoes from Volume shoe source for 19.95.....what could be better? Dave

[DiGia54D]

[QUOTE=Apachemax;230229]I hate to change the subject, or to kickstart this thread again, however. I feel Darrel has a point here, the SWs design is falty, and should be redesigned slightly. Perhaps work with this character who designed a front-carb crankcase and see how his "Frontwinder" performs.
And to my knowlage, Darrel studied 2 stroke engine design at a technical college. I believe he knows what he is talking about.
In addition to that, a family friend of mine; who is a retired moto cross racer and 2 stroke engineer, took a single look at a sidewinder, and buckled over with laughter. He strongly believes that a 2 stroke should have the carb as close to the crank as humanly possible, perhaps even integrated into the crank case. Looking at previous 2 stroke



If i can figure out why i cant upload from my phone...i have a picture of the motor tested at WP

[csh2z]

BmJuby,
The 25xs would remain in the class. However, it may have to be slowed down with the restrictor it used to run and/or a transom height change. As we recently heard, Joe Zolkoski's XS set the 1/4 mi. straightaway record an amazing 75mph.

[Big Don]

BmJuby,
The 25xs would remain in the class. However, it may have to be slowed down with the restrictor it used to run and/or a transom height change. As we recently heard, Joe Zolkoski's XS set the 1/4 mi. straightaway record an amazing 75mph.

But John that was a straightaway record, way different that course records...well that is what we were told when discussing A speeds anyways.

[csh2z]

Yeah, I know, it is different and that is a one of a kind rig. I'd like to see some heat times of 25H against some other classes for comparison sake. There is some research to do on the XS speedwise, for example:I have no idea how much difference the restrictor makes in that motor.
Which leads to another question. Is Joe's rig the benchmark for parity? If that rig remains virtually unbeatable as it has for the last 6 or 7 years, are the rest of us just running for second place at a nationals? That makes growing the class more difficult.

[Matt Dagostino]

Hum

But John that was a straightaway record, way different that course records...well that is what we were told when discussing A speeds anyways.

Big Don...........when i was winning Merc Challenge Titles and National Championships in the 1980's with this same engine, i 'tested' at 74 mph with the restrictor plate in the motor!!! But i get your drift here.

I had one of these 'magic' engines also!! Amazing how easy it is to win when you have 2 mph on the field at a National level. This engine (in my opinion) killed the 25ss class. But Mercury wanted it's updated engine inserted in the class to REPLACE the aging 25ss version. The good news was the new 25xs powerhead was the ONLY engine allowed in the class and Mercury offered a very generous swap out package to help keep the cost down. The bad news was the new loop charged engine was 5 mph faster than the previous powerplant and that helped kill the class. Also, Mercury Racing did not 'dyno' these powerheads and inventory only the ones close in horsepower to try to keep them close in performance as they did the 44xs. Hence, there was a wide range of horsepower disparity.

Back then Wienandt did our engines and i believe Mike set up and dyno tested over 25-50 (total nationwide) engines and found horsepower ratings of 25 to 33 hp.

Imagine the poor bastards who got the engines that put out only 25 horsepower. And it was ALL IN THE BLOCK MY FRIENDS. This was also a reason the class quickly died.

Anyway, just a history lesson. Hopefully the evenly matched Sidewinder Race engines can revive the 25ssh class and of course the A Class with their evenly matched products!! Keeping 'killer engines' off the race course is what will keep hope alive for drivers and help encourage participation. The Sidewinders offer that critical feature of all the engines being close to each other in speed!!! We all just have to be judicious in how we place the motors in our classes that need them.

[Big Don]

Matt & John, I was being sarcastic, when we used 1/4 miles speeds as a comparison in A we were told that they were not the same.

I can tell you this, Donny nor Jeff could run that fast for three laps and keep it upright. I think Jeff will agree on that.

[Matt Dagostino]

Maybe

Matt & John, I was being sarcastic, when we used 1/4 miles speeds as a comparison in A we were told that they were not the same.

I can tell you this, Donny nor Jeff could run that fast for three laps and keep it upright. I think Jeff will agree on that.

Big Don..........having won the ASH Nationals with a Sidewinder and having been around them for a couple years, i will say 'on the racecourse' they run 56-58mph!

Both your boy and Stillwill could only muster 58mph in the 1/4 mile run with perfect water.

Now the 25ssh of Zolkowski and Brewster is a different story. I imagine on the 'racecourse' they run closer to 70-72mph. It will take some skill to slow the 25 Merc down enough to allow the 20ci Sidewinder to become the Motor Of Choice. Which i would hope we all agree is the goal?? Time to say good-by to the dominant few 25 Merc's and hello to the Sidewinder!!

[sponsonhead]

Ok......

I would think it would be acceptable to the Yamato supporters to allow a phase out period from 20SSH while we try to grow our numbers enough to be self sufficient.

And realistically? That's all I am asking for.

And "if" we add the Yamato 80's to run in the 25 class, it gives those guys a second class to run while helping the Sidewinder class grow.

That is a mighty BIG if, but an intriguing one nonetheless. After you posed the question about the number of 80s out here, I made a few inquiries, and there are surprisingly more than I thought. They're here, just hiding in people's basements. And with a little coaxing, we could probably get some out to play (sorry Daren). I'm resisting the temptation of chiding you for deviating from your "one motor per class" mantra, mostly because I agree with you on this one

As I stated before, there has to be a win-win in all of this, and initially this seems like a plausible one.

R-19

[Matt Dagostino]

Hum.........

[QUOTE=sponsonhead;230253
As I stated before, there has to be a win-win in all of this, and initially this seems like a plausible one.
R-19[/QUOTE]

Pat
After the petition and ballot passes (presumably) the language will have to be drafted on 'when' the 20ci engine exits the class. We certainly don't want to mislead 'new purchasers' that the 20ci engine will be in the 20ssh class but perhaps it will be legal through the 2014 season which of course starts next month

And although it is not cool to be 'dumping' multiple engines into one class, in the case of the hurting 25ss class, inserting the Yamato 80 as a 'filler' is a good thought.

GO SKINS.........(keep the name)!

[Big Don]

Matt, I agree they would be legal for 2014 but would be removed for 2015. This is of course if we get enough petitions and it passes once it's on the ballot.

[csh2z]

We haven't heard much from the Merc drivers, I would think they would be on board. The options are few, with the amount of participation we've seen recently. I think I've only been able to run 25 3 or 4 times in the last two or so years due to lack of boats. I guess if they can't muster up four boats they just don't bother. If this were to work out, you might be able to get a couple to some races they normally wouldn't go to because they could be relatively sure there will be enough boats to get a ride and have some fun!
Pat, It's the means to an end.