Rule Clarification on 1/4 Mile Records

[blueskyracer]

This is all good banter!! Now that all these issues are coming to the surface on Hydroracer, perhaps the leaders can give some thought to fine tuning the rules to assure the 1/4 mile runs are not compromised.

After all, arn't these forums on Hydroracer meant to create stimulating discussions and create awareness!!

Its all good.. Its what keeps our site going.. I go from monitoring this to watch the news and its like watching reruns..

[bill boyes]

Ya all are forgetting Oroville Ca in 2014. Lots of records have been set there.
Just check the book.

[Stu Ford]

Dave not everyone goes to every national but I can see passing a rule that the boat has to place first second or third in a closed course race in the prior 12 months before the record attempt and a sticker placed on the boat by an inspector or ref that states that.

Good call George this was/is a rule for inboards.

[guedo499]

For the last couple of years that I've been racing, there are a few weekends that stand out to me as more fun than the rest. Two of those top weekends are straightaway regattas. No question, these are fun weekends to attend and race in.

Earlier this year, we had a group of us go to California for their regatta. I took my Kilo boat, which I picked up only two weeks earlier and my Altralight, assuming I was going to run it in the 1/4 records. Once we got down there and talked to the powers that are, we were told the kilo boat was legal for the 1/4 records. Based off of pure laziness (it was the first nice weekend of the year and we only had to drive a 1000 miles to get there) we decided to run the kilo boat in the 1/4 mile. I had Sean Byrne drive the CSH classes and I drove the boat in 20 and OSY as I'm exactly 40 lbs lighter than him. We set the CSH and 20 kilo records and Sean also set the 1/4 CSH at 69+. A couple things we learned: a kilo boat is made for a kilo run. It needs the motor close to level/level and also needs a full run to the traps. When I say full run, I literally mean two kilometers almost a mile and half, to get up close to speed, and we would prefer more space if the body of water could accommodate it (Coniston here we come!).

Points I'm trying to make is that straightaway racing is a blast and kilo boats won't effectively work for 1/4 race setups and my only suggestion to the powers would to regulate/limit the pre-course run-up area for 1/4 attempts and leave everything open except for the "racing rules" to be applied. Less rules is more fun.

[Racerkyle20]

Earlier this year, we had a group of us go to California for their regatta. I took my Kilo boat, which I picked up only two weeks earlier and my Altralight, assuming I was going to run it in the 1/4 records. Once we got down there and talked to the powers that are, we were told the kilo boat was legal for the 1/4 records. Based off of pure laziness (it was the first nice weekend of the year and we only had to drive a 1000 miles to get there) we decided to run the kilo boat in the 1/4 mile. I had Sean Byrne drive the CSH classes and I drove the boat in 20 and OSY as I'm exactly 40 lbs lighter than him. We set the CSH and 20 kilo records and Sean also set the 1/4 CSH at 69+. A couple things we learned: a kilo boat is made for a kilo run. It needs the motor close to level/level and also needs a full run to the traps. When I say full run, I literally mean two kilometers almost a mile and half, to get up close to speed, and we would prefer more space if the body of water could accommodate it (Coniston here we come!).

Points I'm trying to make is that straightaway racing is a blast and kilo boats won't effectively work for 1/4 race setups and my only suggestion to the powers would to regulate/limit the pre-course run-up area for 1/4 attempts and leave everything open except for the "racing rules" to be applied. Less rules is more fun.

Interesting. Point I see is that a oval course boat (Donny Allen) was faster in a 1/4 mile straight line than a Kilo designed boat (Peeters/Bryne). As Mr. Allen went 70+ in a comp CSH set up in last weekend 's 1/4 mile in WV. Same with the 20ssh rec.

[Racerkyle20]

Just hit the Idaho boarder on our way to Devils Lake, Just wanted to make sure we could run our new 1/4 mile record boat, We have not been able to race it this year in competition since we just pulled it off the jig, but it does meet all of the specifications for the BSR class. Just want to make sure we can run. It would be a long 48 hour ride back to New Jersey. Thanks for the help

[ATTACH]32724[/ATTACH]

Awesome! Glad you guys are making the trek!

[Racerkyle20]

Pat Gleason where are you???HELP!!!! The SORC is going to screw up the 1/4 mile time trial rules.

Gleason is going to the vintage boat race in chelan this weekend instead of Devil's Lake. And I don't believe he's on the SORC....

[brill27]

I think after watching the vidio of tj and jeff brewster that a short run up to the traps could help with the handeling issue of blowovers and keep the event safe for drivers.i heard someone say that kilo boats need a long run to the traps.this short runup might keep those style boats from working without new rules to equipment that everyone fears.i plan on coming next year for sunday if that is possable to do without needing to register on saturday?

[csh2z]

I'd like to point out to those who complain about how many rules are in the APBA rulebook, that this is a perfect example of how rule books evolve & grow. The older the organization is, the thicker the rulebook gets. If the organization wants to maintain the highest quality/ most evenly competitive product, rules must eventually become more and more specific. That is why we have more issues with classes with multiple manufactures competing against each other. Parity = rules.

[sponsonhead]

Checking in...

Pat Gleason where are you???HELP!!!! The SORC is going to screw up the 1/4 mile time trial rules.

I'm here reading all of this....alternating between chuckling and shaking my head. Oh, and going to the store to buy more popcorn.

Yes, Bill is right, this is all my fault. I stole a page out of the Fred Miller Playbook and proposed we run 1 mile straightaways for records. When I presented it to the race management committee, about half the people loved it, and the other half looked at me like I had started drinking again. There was a method to my madness at the time, and these were the reasons I asked race management to add this to our record offerings:

1) To Renew interest in straightaway records. Check!

2) Shorter distance opens up more bodies of water and more clubs to conduct straightaway trials Check! Welcome back New Martinsville!

3) Increased opportunities for APBA and boat racing publicity Check! They set 20 records last weekend in West Virginia! Hopefully, somebody, somewhere (Ryan Berlin, are you listening?) is sending out some press releases on this!

4) Will allow more people to run for straightaway records without the need for specialized boats or equipment Check, for the time being...see KB's comment about D3's CSH record and Guedo's comments previously.

5)Over the long run, may increase interests in Kilo Records This is a long haul objective, but so far, so good!

Summary: 4 out of 5 ain't too bad!

Yet, I see people whining...complaining about how it's only a matter of time before it gets screwed up with specialized boats, etc.....we need more rules! WAKE UP, DUMMIES!!!! It's a Mitzvah! A friggin' GIFT! Honest to God, if someone came along and gave you all complete new rigs free of charge with 10 years worth of repairs and free parts I swear that some of you would be bit@ching about their COLOR.

the fact of the matter is that I originally had in the proposal verbiage that specialized boats were not allowed in the 1/4 mile. But I was told that couldn't be in there because APBA didn't track hulls in categories and there was no way to *prove* that a given hull had competed in a competition event. And even if there was, there was no way to keep someone by horsing a kilo boat around an oval track in last place for one heat and collect 23 or 17 points just so they could call it a "competition" boat. In the end, it was hoped that the fact that specialized kilo boats did have to run competition set ups would at the very least level the playing field between comp and kilo boats. The jury is still out on that one (again, see CSH record).

I do think Guedo's idea of shortening run-in or at least standardizing it has some merit (sorry Mike Johnson....didn't mean to screw up your new D Lake Survey), but for right now, I think we all just need to shut the truck up and enjoy this moment....the renewed interest in straightaway trials....and see where things take us.

Yeah, that'll happen........

R-19

[Dave M]

Wow Pat

Tell us how you really feel. I think i agree with you. I also think the sad part is, we find the need to regulate simple stuff, that violate the orig. sirit of the rule. Thanks lawyers.

I can attest, the KISS theory works pretty dam good. And the proof is out there.

[DiGia54D]

Currently the way the rule reads, the boat would have to meet all closed course boat specs and rules as well as heights, weights, tuck etc.

Now, John posted this on what the rules say... But I still keep reading posts on if Special boats can be used... Am I missing something here?

[bill boyes]

Thanks Pat. You were needed on this one.
Is someone here saying that Oroville run in and out is not long enough?. Are you kidding me. Where is tar nation is a longer one than Oroville??

[brill27]

I hope my post aren't whiny.i just want to have a shot with what is on my trailer

[reed28n]

Even Still

I'm here reading all of this....alternating between chuckling and shaking my head. Oh, and going to the store to buy more popcorn.

Yes, Bill is right, this is all my fault. I stole a page out of the Fred Miller Playbook and proposed we run 1 mile straightaways for records. When I presented it to the race management committee, about half the people loved it, and the other half looked at me like I had started drinking again. There was a method to my madness at the time, and these were the reasons I asked race management to add this to our record offerings:

1) To Renew interest in straightaway records. Check!

2) Shorter distance opens up more bodies of water and more clubs to conduct straightaway trials Check! Welcome back New Martinsville!

3) Increased opportunities for APBA and boat racing publicity Check! They set 20 records last weekend in West Virginia! Hopefully, somebody, somewhere (Ryan Berlin, are you listening?) is sending out some press releases on this!

4) Will allow more people to run for straightaway records without the need for specialized boats or equipment Check, for the time being...see KB's comment about D3's CSH record and Guedo's comments previously.

5)Over the long run, may increase interests in Kilo Records This is a long haul objective, but so far, so good!

Summary: 4 out of 5 ain't too bad!

Yet, I see people whining...complaining about how it's only a matter of time before it gets screwed up with specialized boats, etc.....we need more rules! WAKE UP, DUMMIES!!!! It's a Mitzvah! A friggin' GIFT! Honest to God, if someone came along and gave you all complete new rigs free of charge with 10 years worth of repairs and free parts I swear that some of you would be bit@ching about their COLOR.

the fact of the matter is that I originally had in the proposal verbiage that specialized boats were not allowed in the 1/4 mile. But I was told that couldn't be in there because APBA didn't track hulls in categories and there was no way to *prove* that a given hull had competed in a competition event. And even if there was, there was no way to keep someone by horsing a kilo boat around an oval track in last place for one heats and collect 23 or 17 points just so they could call it a "competition" boat. In the end, it was hoped that the fact that specialized kilo boats did have to run competition set ups would at the very least level the playing field between comp and kilo boats. The jury is still out on that one (again, see CSH record).

I do think Guedo's idea of shortening run-in or at least standardizing it has some merit (sorry Mike Johnson....didn't mean to screw up your new D Lake Survey), but for right now, I think we all just need to shut the truck up and enjoy this moment....the renewed interest in straightaway trials....and see where things take us.

Yeah, that'll happen........

R-19

Even with this awesome post about not touching something that appears to be working, no one, it seems, can refrain from suggesting a change.