Rule Clarification on 1/4 Mile Records

[Lee Sutter]

Dear Fellow Racers:

After reading several comments about the use of specialty (non-competition) straight-a-way boats and attending Devil’s Lake Oregon speed trials last weekend, I have the following observations:

1. There were more entries than in the past because of the new one quarter
mile records
2. Local clubs will financially benefit
3. Racers with competition (non¬¬-kilo) boats have the opportunity to compete
4. More venues can conduct events as they can be held on smaller lakes
5. No need to spend money on specialty boats, and
6. More head-on completion and excitement because everybody has a chance to
set a record
7. The shorter distance lowers the risk of crashes
8. You can run more boats per hour
9. Etc.

I believe that the one quarter mile records should be run with a competition set up (already established). Using competition boats (non-specialty kilo boats) allows everybody to compete.

The issue is differentiating a “kilo” from a “competition” boat. Rather than get hung up in the technicality of the rules, let’s focus on what it is that we want to accomplish, i.e., to allow competition boats to race and disallow specialty designed kilo boats from competing in the one quarter mile. By this I mean no added costs, no lawyers, and no post discussions . . . it is what it is. For example, under the rule, the width of the bottom is already regulated. (The specialty Kilo boats can continue to run in their own class).

My recommendation is to form a committee to establish the minimum criteria for presentation no later than the Reno National meeting in February, 2014. I volunteer to be on the committee or help in any way needed.
One idea is to award more HOC points for Competition than for Kilo quarter mile straight-a-way records.

I look forward to the myriad of feedback this will generate.

Lee Sutter, 28R

[Ron Hill]

Lee, Great Post!

I am planning on running 1/4 mile record runs between Christmas and New Years, 2014. I didn't read the "FINE PRINT" about "Competition Boats".

he first thing to come to my mind is "What is a Kilo Boat"??? Kyle Ball's C Runabout is closer to a "KILO BOAT" than any runabout I ever ran.

I'd think keeping the transom heights that competition boats have would be enough.

Remember when Ernie Dawe ran his brother's "Floater" (Tiger 888) in CRS, at Guntersville, Alabama, 1962? This boat was the fastest boat on the lake, but could not turn. Had John Puestow come up with the side fin, in '62, things would be different. No way it was a "Competition boat, it was a marathon floater. But today all runabouts are "Floaters".

Do you require fins to be on boats for 1/4 mile records??

1/4 mile records make lots of sense to me, and I'm not at all trying to KNOCK them....Especially the part where you said "The Club" makes money.

APBA needs to realize that unless clubs make money, APBA is "TOAST" sooner or later.

[Lee Sutter]

Rules Clarification on 1/4 Mile Records

Thank you Ron.
The "fine Print" is that racers must run competition set-ups. No "Kilo" set-ups with any class legal boats. And, no boat restrictions - only discussions.
Kyle Bahl has a competition Runne built Austin, which he races in all events he enters. He has won two National Championships with this boat. This is his only CSR/25SSR boat and has no special Straight-A-Way boat. No one in Region 10 uses a Special boat for Straight-A-Way events, yet. I just took delivery on a new wider bottom boat for longer courses with all the chines used to make it a competition boat - it might not be legal. It is not even close to being a "Floater"
Wide bottom floaters might not be able to race in 1/4 Mile events, But legal for Kilo.
You can leave your fins at home for both 1/4 and Kilo events.
I heard West Virginia had over 40 outboard entries and Devil's Lake had 43. Last year, Devils Lake only had 13 entries!
This could be a great format without jeopardizing the 'Kilo" events.
Ron, I'm for this because I know that "Special Straight-A-Way boats will dominated all classes (especially runabouts) and obsolete all competition boats. I know they are 5% minimum faster and they don't need to turn. FYI -Years ago, I set the BSR (a 57 MPH to 60 MPH class in competition at 73 MPH. And nobody ever ran thru the Kilo again in that class.
I don't want that to happen again.
Where is the event you are attending?
Best,
Lee

[Dave M]

Comp. Boats

I think just about everyone agrees this 1/4 Mile record should be with a competition boat.

The trick here is for Pat Gleason, and some others to come up with how to word details into what the spirit of this Comp. Boat rule.

Pat, I know you want to beat on me for talking change to an already new class sort to speak. Think about all the messes that have been royally screwed up in introducing them without a detailed plan, Tohotsu, Sidewinder, Pickle Tips, etc, etc, etc. The battles that were fought on the web and in person regarding these are still present today. And these classes have been established for a few years now.

Someone think about the percentage increase in entries this 1/4 mile did for Devils lake..... it is well over 100% increase in entries... that should speak volumns. There is a massive interest in this from the members. Don't screw it up. It tells me that the rules better be black & white and simple to understand for this record. Don't let it drag out a few years..... Another point to Lee's great post, if you have a record run course for a kilo, you might glean additional entries that came just for a the 1/4 mile run, and they decide to run through the traps for the kilo. It might generate some interest and new special boats for a kilo, kind of spark the interest back into that.

[bill boyes]

Ron, if you think you can make money doing a time trial better do the Math. We in Region 11 have been doing a time trial for 30+ years. I have been involved for about 20 years and we have NEVER maked any money on the event. last year broke even as we had some very good donations. Just where do you plan on hosting the event????

[dwilderacer]

my run at D lake

Was run wit the same boat and setup that I broke the comp record at Lawrence with, just used my sisters hydro wheel. Ran over the record but not by 1.003 !

[Lee Sutter]

I think just about everyone agrees this 1/4 Mile record should be with a competition boat.

The trick here is for Pat Gleason, and some others to come up with how to word details into what the spirit of this Comp. Boat rule.

Pat, I know you want to beat on me for talking change to an already new class sort to speak. Think about all the messes that have been royally screwed up in introducing them without a detailed plan, Tohotsu, Sidewinder, Pickle Tips, etc, etc, etc. The battles that were fought on the web and in person regarding these are still present today. And these classes have been established for a few years now.

Someone think about the percentage increase in entries this 1/4 mile did for Devils lake..... it is well over 100% increase in entries... that should speak volumns. There is a massive interest in this from the members. Don't screw it up. It tells me that the rules better be black & white and simple to understand for this record. Don't let it drag out a few years..... Another point to Lee's great post, if you have a record run course for a kilo, you might glean additional entries that came just for a the 1/4 mile run, and they decide to run through the traps for the kilo. It might generate some interest and new special boats for a kilo, kind of spark the interest back into that.

Dave is correct. These events should generate a lot more interest and entries. If "Kilo Only" boats are allowed in the 1/4 Mile it will die a quick death and we will be right back where we are with the Kilo's. I'm for specialty boats in Kilo's and competition boats in the 1/4 Mile.

[DeanFHobart]

Ron, Where For This 1/4 Mile Record Run

[QUOTE=Ron Hill;229735]I am planning on running 1/4 mile record runs between Christmas and New Years, 2014.

Ron,

Where are you planning this to be....... Salton Sea?????

Deano............................................

[sponsonhead]

Objective and Subjective Criteria

Cr@p....I really didn't want get dragged back into this fray...

Dave, I'm not patently against something that could help clarify the spirit and intent of the rule to keep 1/4 straightaway runs limited solely to the use of competition boats. As I mentioned before, that is in fact the intent; and the reason we could not initially include it in the rules is that is that present process for hull registration documentation (well, lack thereof) does not allow an easy way to do that.

Also, let's remember that this is a Big Picture item: this isn't just as simple of thinking about Stock Outboard kilo boats...floaters, laydowns, etc. Whatever is done here should be something that can be implemented across all categories and classes that choose to recognize the quarter mile. I've never seen an inboard specific Kilo boat for example, although I'm sure Ron Hill has. But I digress.

So, getting back to Spirit and Intent....a sticky subject since it is based on subjective criteria, and as such leaves a precarious gray area for interpretation. But, it may be all we have.

Perhaps the best suggestion would be a combination of items, both objective and subjective: First, as previously discussed, limited run-in and run-out lengths of a specified maximum length to negate some of the advantages of running a kilo boat.

Secondly, add a Spirit and Intent clause to the rules that allows the inspector latitude to determine whether a boat is a competition or kilo boat....so that even if Guedo or Wart or somebody else manages to finesse their kilo boat around Lawrence Lake or Dayton and completes a heat, an inspector can look at the boat and declare it ineligible based on their knowledge and interpretation of what constitutes a comp boat and a kilo boat. Like I said, totally subjective and risky....but it does add to the Rule Book a black-and-white statement that 1/4 mile records are intended to be for comp boats.

We all know...and it appears from reading these posts, that we agree....what we are trying to accomplish here. Let's be grownups and make it happen.

R-19

[guedo499]

We all know...and it appears from reading these posts, that we agree....what we are trying to accomplish here. Let's be grownups and make it happen.

R-19

I don't want to grow up.

I agree with limiting Kilo-boat participation in the 1/4 mile, but I'm going to protest by building a 1/4 mile specific prop as well as a 1/4 specific motor and even run my 1/4 mile setup. Take that!

[G Stillwill]

The inboards already have a rule in place the boat must have finished first second or third in a regular race during the previous 12 months before it can used for a streight away record not just finished a regular race.

[sponsonhead]

Apples and Oranges

The inboards already have a rule in place the boat must have finished first second or third in a regular race during the previous 12 months before it can used for a streight away record not just finished a regular race.

Keep in mind that Inboards register each hull individually by number, so it is easier to track that at APBA HQ and determine if a boat has placed in the top three. How many 32-E's do you own?

R-19

[Ron Hill]

Blue Water Marina

Thank you Ron.
The "fine Print" is that racers must run competition set-ups. No "Kilo" set-ups with any class legal boats. And, no boat restrictions - only discussions.
Kyle Bahl has a competition Runne built Austin, which he races in all events he enters. He has won two National Championships with this boat. This is his only CSR/25SSR boat and has no special Straight-A-Way boat. No one in Region 10 uses a Special boat for Straight-A-Way events, yet. I just took delivery on a new wider bottom boat for longer courses with all the chines used to make it a competition boat - it might not be legal. It is not even close to being a "Floater"
Wide bottom floaters might not be able to race in 1/4 Mile events, But legal for Kilo.
You can leave your fins at home for both 1/4 and Kilo events.
I heard West Virginia had over 40 outboard entries and Devil's Lake had 43. Last year, Devils Lake only had 13 entries!
This could be a great format without jeopardizing the 'Kilo" events.
Ron, I'm for this because I know that "Special Straight-A-Way boats will dominated all classes (especially runabouts) and obsolete all competition boats. I know they are 5% minimum faster and they don't need to turn. FYI -Years ago, I set the BSR (a 57 MPH to 60 MPH class in competition at 73 MPH. And nobody ever ran thru the Kilo again in that class.
I don't want that to happen again.
Where is the event you are attending?
Best,
Lee

Many years ago, we ran Kilos at Blue Water between Christmas and New Years. Weather is usually very nice then, days are short. Blue Water has had many records set and broken there, but I never felt it was a good kilo course, because at one end the river curved, and the other end the dam was **** close.

I have requested the water for 2014 (A year away) for the days between Christmas and New Years. I like the "Quarter Mile Kilos" (As I call it) concept and would like to help support it if I can.

[T Chance]

Just a thought. . .
Maybe register intent to compete in 1/4 mile straightaway at the beginning of the season and then receive some sort of tamper proof dashboard sticker at each closed course race from Inspector certifying that the boat Successfully raced around a closed course; get three of them and you are good to go? - Tim Chance, Saint Louis, MO

[Ron Hill]

Good Thinking, Tim!!!

Just a thought. . .
Maybe register intent to compete in 1/4 mile straightaway at the beginning of the season and then receive some sort of tamper proof dashboard sticker at each closed course race from Inspector certifying that the boat Successfully raced around a closed course; get three of them and you are good to go? - Tim Chance, Saint Louis, MO

The good part about your three race plan, Tim is getting people to make sure they actually race three times. Personally, I'd change your wording to three "EVENTS" (Venues). The reason I say this is you can get three or maybe four races with points in a two day race, under Stock Outboard rules.

Back in 1970 OPC had a rule where the driver had to have finished 1st, 2nd or 3rd in a race in the previous 12 months. I ended up driving Jimmy Hauenstein's Bell Craft in "S" for Jim as he wasn't qualified to run the kilos. I set the record at like 122 MPH, but got DQ'd as the motor had not been in the Propeller for 30 days.

Sometimes, rules get confusing. With computers we have, I think it would be fun to have yearly records and keep track of many records. Yearly records would help bring up the entry count!