SO Class Reduction Proposal

[Richard Hearn]

I saw a video of the Nationals finals of BSR. Great race between Ed & Richard Hearn and Brian Trolian. Three laps side by side. Ed had the inside lane, Brian on the outside.

I don't recall racing next to Ed and Brian!!! ;-)

[Kev43V]

I don't recall racing next to Ed and Brian!!! ;-)

Cause you were not ... You were so far ahead of both of them that they had clean water...

[csh12M]

Kev43

Kev I am starting to think you are not reading my whole post...

All I am saying is we swap your blue flywheel sidewinder in BSH for your red and add the 20SSH to the field. Keep the weight at 365 for the Hot Rod and Sidewinder, nothing changed except for your block! and 5CI, I am giving you a little more horsepower, so that you can run a bit bigger boat against the 20.

I do not understand your points? You could race the "new" BSH class at 160lb?

Also instead of telling me how close it is getting, tell me why I should steer someone into the class vrs. the 20SSH class? That is why it is a dying class. Additionally wouldn't you love to be able to go to a race and know you have enough to race. In your last series of posts you give me race speed data, the depressing part to me is that was a 3 boat race wasn't it?

I respect all your opinions, and welcome the exchange of ideas on this. As I mentioned I have no stake whatsoever in this. If anything, the proposal negates a $3k Sidefin boat I bought this year to race my Sidewinder in 25.

We must look at the sport at what can we SELL to new names. We can argue all day at how close the blue Sidewinder is, and at what race so/so stayed out in front, but who cares. I cant sell it to a new guy. Give me the sales pitch right now for BSR or BSH to a new name? Thats how we know we have a problem?

So I ask this simple question again, Why would I race BSR or BSH? (the way it is now)

[Big Don]

“Yet Andy Hanson with very little testing on their A. was at the back of the pack with the A. That gives the appearance in the Midwest that the A winder is not even a threat to the poor to mid range Omcs. Yet for some reason I do not think anyone believes that to be true”

Hanson won 1 heat I believe with the Sidewinder in ASH this weekend. The next heat he ran last I believe. Now I don’t know why but I do know they were looking at the Carb between heats so maybe they made a change and it didn’t work.

[G Stillwill]

I have ran my BSH before with the bigger boats and it wont happen again. I value my life and equip more then that. I dont care if you make it 12cc as its not the speed that is the issue here but safety. I put two B rigs on the water at almost every race and both will become 250CCMH boats only and I know of two or three more that will do the same. Oh and the 15 Sidwinder is a leagel Mod motor also. Don Im not a Hot Rod expert but I do break less at 13cc then at 12cc's . I do feel sorry for the guys that spent 4500.00 for the 15 Sidwinder and now your telling them that they will have the shell out another 500-to 800 to make them have a place to run it. Pipes are much cheaper and the Mod Div can just sit back and watch it grow. Im not picking up my marbles and walking away Im just going to play with a different group. I will say this much if I was a passer by and reading all this which there are many that do just look at any time the amount of guest that are on here, I would never get involved in this hobbie. In ternal problems should be discussed on a private forum not on a public one, just my two cents.

[csh2z]

Richard, I just didn't want to hurt your feelings by omission. For those that don't know, Richard is the National Champion!

[DSR 244M]

Dsr

Rich Runne,

DSR should not be a class, let it run as a local class for the oddball MI race, marathons, and for Top 'O only.

The points summary on the APBA website supports my position. No one races the class.

Bill

I say leave DSR the way it is for the following reasons:

1.) There is new equipment availible
2.) With the consolidation of several smaller/ mid size classes it may spark new interest in the DSR. If a CSR racer wants to run another runabout class, what would their options be if the new class format is passed? Most of them would be too big for B.

Thanks
Todd Veum

[Kev43V]

Dean I feel it is a dying class because it has been decades since someone could buy a new motor if they are just getting into the sport. 5 years ago we asked Coop about B motors. he said there just are none available. or if you do find one that someone is willing to unload on you. That is exactly what they are doing cause it will not be one that is worth buying. (the exception is crony sales ) Coop if I am remembering this conversation wrong please pipe up and correct me. I have actually been asking people that skipped B in their racing careers why. also have been asking around about B hydros. many times the reply was nearly exactly the same. We did not run B because the motors grenade all the time and why would you want to campaign a piece of crap.
Seems to me The B's have die hard lovers. They continued to run BSR because they love the roll up boats but they did not mess with B hydro so they can still have motors for B rollup.
I suspect that if one of the few hotrods that can stay together at the lower cc's gets a start they might be able to stay in front. but if they find themselves mid pack they will NOT stay there. they will end the race 1/4 to 1/2 lap down I can not sell a newbie on you "can run B" (your B) at your weight but if you get a second or third place start you will be a back marker by the end of the race.
I can not sell a 130 or 140 pound driver on a life long career on A only. Sure some people are happy with that, but many will want more speed. I guess I will just tell them to run a different cat. or even Org.
(yes I know this opinion is based on only 3 heats of running behind the 20's) yet unfortunately I can say that in seven years I have spent more time at the back of the pack than the average driver. hence I almost feel like an expert on Slop driving.
I think you also will be forcing younger drivers that have gotten a little to big for A to jump straight to C. I am not sure that is actually a safe progression for drivers of average skills. Not everyone is an Amy Nydahl.

I can not in words explain the sour taste in my mouth of spending several years promoting the new motors to prospective racers. And how they are not quite there yet in B but I have faith they will be. While at the same time trying to reassure existing OMC owners that no one, Not I or Racing outboards wants to make your COMPETITIVE omc obsolete in A. Then after seeing the Sidewinder win a few races. On top of that to come home with my very first win that happened to be with a sidewinder. To then read you want to ****house that motor.

[Richard Hearn]

Richard, I just didn't want to hurt your feelings by omission. For those that don't know, Richard is the National Champion!

Well played....

[Kev43V]

[
quoting dean
So I ask this simple question again, Why would I race BSR or BSH? (the way it is now)[/QUOTE]


How much do you weigh? IF it is over about 170 I would suggest that you NOT run B. Sure there are several drivers that are top runners that are above that weight. They are not newbies, they have both above average motors AND above average driving skills. And I salute their accomplishments. I would suggest that you run one of the many C classes. I would tell you that it is more than likely that you will continue to be able to run multiple classes with the one motor. But if not and Classes that are that similar are actually consolidated you would more than likely have eliminations at most races. Giving you more boat time than you would get in other classes.
how many years did it take to resurrect 20 with the restricted Yamato when all of the 20 hotrods were blown up beyond repair? oh probably not long at all considering there were plenty of C drivers that wanted to run 2 classes.

[Kev43V]

I say leave DSR the way it is for the following reasons:

1.) There is new equipment availible
2.) With the consolidation of several smaller/ mid size classes it may spark new interest in the DSR. If a CSR racer wants to run another runabout class, what would their options be if the new class format is passed? Most of them would be too big for B.

Thanks
Todd Veum

Not at all the new B will just be a C class with the new B's added to it

[csh12M]

Kev

Kev read my earlier posts?

BSH is dead, because 20SSH is strong, it is cheaper, more reliable, you can buy a new motor and you can race it at 160-180 pounds. It is a class that can not be promoted to a new racer in good faith.

Kev, I am sure I am not going to sway you from your position and I can understand it. I think we have to agree to disagree.

So by your position is it safe for me to assume you are against SO class consolidation and reduction? We continue to race the 11 SO classes in addition to the 4 J category classes?

[26V]

quote"BSH is dead, because 20SSH is strong, it is cheaper, more reliable, you can buy a new motor and you can race it at 160-180 pounds.""""

So what you are telling everyone under 160 lbs is run A. Its the only class we have for you.

[Kev43V]

Dean this morning I feel pretty darn sure I can no longer promote ANY stock outboard racing. When every year or two one fraction or the other decides to consolidate there effort to change the direction we are headed.
more reliable? I think not, to date with everyone that has been willing to try the B Sidewinder I have heard of one scuffed piston. to bad that guy forgot to use oil in his fuel... temps of as high as 140 have been recorded with no damage. but with a signifigant loss of power but only untill the temp was brought back down.
OPC, Pro and maybe even NBRA are starting to look alot more tempting to me now.
The truth is Dean much of the harm to stock outboard has been this fraction fighting that has been going on for decades. It has probably been a more signifigant factor than all the others combined

[csh12M]

George

I agree with your point George, big boats little boats. Although I have seen some fast BSH run on 20SSH boats. Sidor, has done it many times and Ed Hearn won the first heat of BSH at the Nats on Brian Trolians 20SSH. I am sure the 20CI Sidewinder is going to compete and win in 20SSH and can do it with a 20SSH size boat. I offer the 12CC option to the Rotary valve as a option a way to not completely cut out someones class, and it could/would be competitive. However, I suspect, you you state that a lot will bolt on horns and go 250CC MOD racing. I don't think that is a bad thing! Yes Mod numbers might grow in the short term, great!!! As I stated earlier, reducing Stock classes will help MOD and that is a good thing!!1 Stock needs a strong MOD category as a secondary market for its transitioning equipment. Every race in the country in a combined SO/MO event anyway with the exception of MHRA. I am just trying to get the SO house in order, we very well may take a small step back, but SO would be positioned for large steps forward! This combination format I outlined is the smallest step back that I can come up with?