SO Class Reduction Proposal

[csh12M]

Don

Hello Don,

I have refrained from more Hydroracer banter. After a certain point no good can come of it. I have accomplished my first goal, which was, to get the idea in front of the internet audience to gauge reaction. My estimate is about 75% in favor about 25% against. I have received about 10 PM, email and telephone calls all supporting from members that do not post on Hydroracer. Therefore, I feel it is still viable and will continue to pursue the proposal. My next step is to get it on paper and onto a Powerpoint so I can distribute. I will also try and schedule a conference call next week to clarify the proposal and answer any questions. The next step has to come from the members at the Region meetings. If you are in favor, you need to make sure you have a commissioner that will vote "yes" to put it to ballot by the membership. IF it makes it that far it would go to ballot for all of SO to vote on and we would have our answer once and for all.

Dean Sutherland
CSH12M

[reed28n]

Side fins vs. Roll up

Rolling up is cool. I love it and I would be comfortable at most races.

The goal of every class should be to appeal to new drivers. To grow their class. To improve participation.

Rolling up a boat is not for all boats built by all builders and rolling up is not an easy transition for many if not all new drivers.

The truth of the matter is.....BSR would have more appeal to more drivers if the boat had a side fin. CSR would nearly be extinct without the side fin.

As much as I hate to make those two statements it is fact. The Side fin is a much easier tranistion for a hydro driver, it tames the boat in the straight way, gives drivers more control of their boat in the turn.

Allow side fins in all classes......it is not about what you have in your garage. It is about the opportunity your class is missing. If the true goal is growth then focus on ways to grow, not stay the same.

This issue is a microcosm of what is wrong with our sport. We keep things around because we the current racers like them. It is time to consider what appeals to everybody else!

[csh12M]

KEV yes

Yes Kevin, A probably should be the only viable option for 140lbs adult.

Reason:

The average weight of male adults is 76 kilograms to 83 kilograms or 168 pounds to 183 pounds. Meanwhile, females are lighter, which have an average weight of 54 kilograms to 64 kilograms or 120 pounds to 140 pounds.

This was taken from a very quick Google search. The average male, is 168 -183. Under my plan we would have A,B,C,D classes. B and C will easily be raced by the average Male weight. 50% of the classes targeted to the average. A class will be their for those under and growing transitioning kids. Conversely D will be available for all those over 210lbs.

I can really appreciate where you are coming from and if we want to keep the current BSH class and add it to my New BSH class plan, so be it, I don't really care on that one.

Another option is add a MOD class to your program. Historically MOD has VERY low weights vrs. speed/class. 250CC Hydro would be a great option for someone 140 who wants to go VERY fast, 66MPH plus.

[BP125V]

Dean

PM'd you


Bill

[Kev43V]

Rolling up is cool. I love it and I would be comfortable at most races.

The goal of every class should be to appeal to new drivers. To grow their class. To improve participation.

Rolling up a boat is not for all boats built by all builders and rolling up is not an easy transition for many if not all new drivers.

The truth of the matter is.....BSR would have more appeal to more drivers if the boat had a side fin. CSR would nearly be extinct without the side fin.

As much as I hate to make those two statements it is fact. The Side fin is a much easier tranistion for a hydro driver, it tames the boat in the straight way, gives drivers more control of their boat in the turn.

Allow side fins in all classes......it is not about what you have in your garage. It is about the opportunity your class is missing. If the true goal is growth then focus on ways to grow, not stay the same.

This issue is a microcosm of what is wrong with our sport. We keep things around because we the current racers like them. It is time to consider what appeals to everybody else!

WEEEEELLLLL
on that subject at K3 Gene's BSR ROLL UP with the sidewinder on it created a substantial amount of interest.

And Yes Don you are 100 percent right

[Kev43V]

Yes Kevin, A probably should be the only viable option for 140lbs adult.

Reason:

The average weight of male adults is 76 kilograms to 83 kilograms or 168 pounds to 183 pounds. Meanwhile, females are lighter, which have an average weight of 54 kilograms to 64 kilograms or 120 pounds to 140 pounds.

This was taken from a very quick Google search. The average male, is 168 -183. Under my plan we would have A,B,C,D classes. B and C will easily be raced by the average Male weight. 50% of the classes targeted to the average. A class will be their for those under and growing transitioning kids. Conversely D will be available for all those over 210lbs.

I can really appreciate where you are coming from and if we want to keep the current BSH class and add it to my New BSH class plan, so be it, I don't really care on that one.
I would love to hear what the existing BSR folks think of this

Another option is add a MOD class to your program. Historically MOD has VERY low weights vrs. speed/class. 250CC Hydro would be a great option for someone 140 who wants to go VERY fast, 66MPH plus.

ADD A MOD CLASS?????
Might work fine in YOUR region Dean, but I do not live there. Besides I thought we were trying to reduce the amount of classes we run? 250 mod just does not run here or if we managed to make it happen, it would just be another 3 boat thing. which all of us would like to avoid.



But thats ok Dean, I found a place to race... under the PRO Cat.- OSY
thanks to the Good Mr Mackey

[J.T24w]

roll up all the way

After reading this entire thread and listening to all the banter as u all say, let me recap my rookie season. I have been around this sport for a long long time and have seen many things. i had a dream of racing when i was (, but my parents told me no. It took me 15 years before i went for my first ride in a 25ssh, would jump in one anytime i have the chance to. fast forward to 9 years later i am in my first full year of racing at 33. The class i chose was BSR, why well cost was the biggest. I had the supply of motors from great friends i have made over the years of going to races and watching/ helping as much as i could. The other reason was the roll up is much more than getting in a boat and leaning on a fin to turn. I was told there so much to learn running a roll up and boy was i over my head jumping in it.

I can honesly say that i was in no way a contender at all this year but i had fun everyday i was out there racing , and every race brought on a new accomplishment in my first year. Did i have the best boat, no but it was the right price. Did i have the best motor prop, not sure u will all have to ask davey and warbs about that. Did i have alot of money to go to the races with this year, no i did not. I ran the races in my local club and that was it. I am all about going forward with this sport, but the hardest thing for a "newbie" is the money it costs to get started. For me to go out and buy a brand new SW would probally put me back to watching races.

Lets look at it this way,these were my figures when i first made this step in my life. A new SW $4500, a new boat $6000, props $2000 need a few extra, used kevlar jacket etc. we will say 1000-1500, trailer 200 converted to race trailer 1200 for a total of $15400. U see why it is hard for a new racer to look at this and honestly reason with his wallet to do it. I got lucky and had alot of friends help me out with my first year, without them i would still be on the shore watching.i love this sport, the friends that i consider family and the way the racers are towards eachother is like nothing i have seen before. I guess what i am trying to say is everysport needs to grow in order to survive, but at what costs if it becomes an issue where new racers can't afford it and old ones have to take what they have scrap it and then justify starting over. Everyone should research other forms of racing, and see how all the changes changed there sport and car counts and spectators. Nascar used to be for just about everyperson that had a car, now if u are not on one of the elite teams get ready to ride around the back. Thank u for letting me show my side of this sport. AND KEEP BSR A ROLL UP... irs what intrigued me the most. 24W

[Mike Beegle]

a b c class nothing new

Hey it worked way back when

[Richard Hearn]

RaceCraft & $$ to Race

Lets look at it this way,these were my figures when i first made this step in my life. A new SW $4500, a new boat $6000, props $2000 need a few extra, ...24W

Call RaceCraft - Brian Trolian. He will sell you a great NEW rollup BSR boat for far less than $6,000 (maybe even half, but that's between you and him). Assuming my new 2011 BR RaceCraft is as good as my 2010 ride, I'd consider selling it. PM me in the spring.

For the record, my BSR ride (used) cost a grand total of $3,750 (boat, motor (hot rod), prop). Boat racing is far, far less expensive to put a rig out front than most (dare I say all) other racing categories (save maybe RC!)

The $$ to race boats is clearly not the overarching issue with the sport...

See you in the first turn - 24W!.

[Shep]

I've been reading this thread for a while - not all of it but most.
I like the idea of simplified classes (a,b,c,d) Makes it much easier to follow as a spectator. I've always been confused by the class structure in Stock Outboard, but then that's not hard to do with me any way.

I think with the J classes growing like they are we will see natural growth in SO.

I also believe that cost is not as big of factor as people make it out to be. I have been to enough SO races now to observe how people function. I have watched some speed a ton of money and run last in a regular basis and also have seen just the opposite where almost no money is spent and they run out front.

That all leads me to believe that racers will spend to their comfort level and that's it. If they want to race they will find the equipment at a price they can afford and race. If they know what they are doing they will win regardless. It's that way in OPC too.

I also believe and have seen it happening that we need to focus more energy and resources on growing the J category thru-out APBA. If we do that and get 50-75% retention rate our sport will grow.

Just my thoughts

[Gunjumper]

If I drop 6 g's on just the boat, will it have D&G padding and platinum plated hardware?! I know for a fact that the fastest CSR rig a few years back- complete - went for about 6 grand, it had multi National wins on it. And last years ASR National rig went for even less than that, complete. It's not about the $, its who you know and your relationships with the right people. Daddy Warbucks with deep pockets could come to the races with an open checkbook and not even be able to get on plane, but I bet I could put a complete rig together for under $3000 and put it on the podium at next years Nationals. The $15k number will scare people, it is unneccessary. Hook up with the right people that will support and guide you in the right class. I think Deans plan simplifies the clutter of all these classes we have. I support simplification, for us now and for the future. A racer that I respect a great deal said to me recently "I just want them to tell me what motor to run in which class so I can start on next years program." I like this mentality.

[raceright]

I've been reading this thread for a while - not all of it but most.
I like the idea of simplified classes (a,b,c,d) Makes it much easier to follow as a spectator. I've always been confused by the class structure in Stock Outboard, but then that's not hard to do with me any way.

I think with the J classes growing like they are we will see natural growth in SO.

I also believe that cost is not as big of factor as people make it out to be. I have been to enough SO races now to observe how people function. I have watched some speed a ton of money and run last in a regular basis and also have seen just the opposite where almost no money is spent and they run out front.

That all leads me to believe that racers will spend to their comfort level and that's it. If they want to race they will find the equipment at a price they can afford and race. If they know what they are doing they will win regardless. It's that way in OPC too.

I also believe and have seen it happening that we need to focus more energy and resources on growing the J category thru-out APBA. If we do that and get 50-75% retention rate our sport will grow.

Just my thoughts

Question;

Does anyone know where the numbers of J or K Pro come from. Is it offspring as I believe. Or are there any and if so how many from advertizing,new friends and so on???

[Kev43V]

Question;

Does anyone know where the numbers of J or K Pro come from. Is it offspring as I believe. Or are there any and if so how many from advertizing,new friends and so on???

in region 7:
The recruitment booth/Kevs has brought in a few.
Family and Friends of family have brought in a few.
Then there are the racers like Pete,Shep. than came (back?)to our stock races for J when their kids became old enough to run it.
I "think" whoever was the catalist for running J on monday at Kankakee in 09
did a great job of thinking out side the box. (Shep?) the exposure to a large crowd is great.(and generates leads for J and the drivers schools) And it induced a couple more of the OPC people to let their kids run it this year, at least at K3. it would be cool if they could make it a regular thing. Then thier kids could race more without the conficting weekend thing. or trying to run a J program at stock/mod events and their OPC racing.
Although we are MORE than happy to have them as regulars!

[Shep]

J hydro at kankakee is a effort focused on keeping Opc families racing. We have watched to many go away because kids were "bored" and mom was tired of taking care of them at home by herself. I also believe that we have been losing the kids and dads to football soccer baseball ect.

Because we race J at K3 Kev is able to recruit new racers much more effectively there.

How many new to sport racers? Not enough
How many returning to sport? More than we had but not enough.

[Kev43V]

One aspect I do not think has been considered or if it has, it has not been addressed:
How many people at races were there with a boat and motor for a class. That found themselves not running due to 1 less boat than they needed?
I think number wise. when it comes to total entries and total driver counts at the end of the year. This is one factor that may very well have the most impact. That one boat costs the region 1000 bucks over 5 weekends of racing at $25 per entry. it is 4 people not one not on the list of the end of year totals. it is also one class that the spectator does not see at all. By all means combine them with diff. class when they run.
If anything the announcer then has a new oportunity to plug that we are actively recruiting new members, for BOTH classes.