25SSR Record Smashed

[Cameraboy]

That's the one

Anyone know what make boat he was driving in the attempt to set that 20ss record?

Was it this one, see attachment?

"Jonathan Nilsen set a record in 20ss with a restricted 302"

That's the one. I don't recall the make of it, but I understand it's one of Wartinger's old boats. It's been a screamer in OSY and CSH this season also with brother Jamie driving.

[sponsonhead]

Nilsen's boat

Marc,

Yep, it was his MJR.

R-19

[Composite Specialties]

That was mine!

That one was actually my C-Stock boat. It has a composite bottom with a lot of Carbon Fiber in it. I loved it when I raced it, then sold it to Wart to take to the west coast. I am so glad that it is still successful.

[MRIRACER]

Time to even it up!!

First Congrats to Mr. Perman.....records are made to break. Now down to Business....Thank-you to all the Yamato drivers who helped save the class..very much appreciated guys THANKS. However, we need to even the playing field between the Mercs and Yamatos. There are several ways in which to do this. The easiest and fairest would be to take the restrictor off the Merc...make it a 25. Tested this theory recently...more power thru the corner/not much more top end (something about a 12lb flywheel I think). Another easy fix would be to drop the Yamato to 1 3/8 instead of 3/4. I wish again to thank the Yamato drivers...who doesn't like manufactuer vs manufactuer competion, but it needs to be competion. I for one would rather have to race to win, not win because I have a built in advantage. My suggestion would be to try one of these changes for one year, compile data and see where we stand. What do you think guys???

[MRIRACER]

Time to even it up!!

First Congrats to Mr. Perman.....records are made to break. Now down to Business....Thank-you to all the Yamato drivers who helped save the class..very much appreciated guys THANKS. However, we need to even the playing field between the Mercs and Yamatos. There are several ways in which to do this. The easiest and fairest would be to take the restrictor off the Merc...make it a 25. Tested this theory recently...more power thru the corner/not much more top end (something about a 12lb flywheel I think). Another easy fix would be to drop the Yamato to 1 3/8 instead of 3/4. I wish again to thank the Yamato drivers...who doesn't like manufactuer vs manufactuer competion, but it needs to be competion. I for one would rather have to race to win, not win because I have a built in advantage. My suggestion would be to try one of these changes for one year, compile data and see where we stand. What do you think guys???

Team Casual/Mike Affholter 51M

[Steve Johnson]

Boat size

One factor that I think isn't being talked about is size of the yamato boats as well as turning style. them big yamato gearcases dig huge holes. tiny merc or hotrods get lost in them,and just fall back. seen this in some of the MOD combinatitions that have been tried . Brains was real impressive in front but what happened in traffic. my DMH felt very very small when I stepped into FEH in NY. I'll bet the merc guys feel the same way. Speed is only half the trouble. restricter out would help though. fact I bet more hydros would come back to play if the motor were a better ride. I can talk ,cause I've raced both ways.

steve

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

Welcome Mike! Good to see part of the Team Casual Mercury chime in.
As we both tested Mike, we both know you are correct. The 25 accelerates great but the top end is still the same without the restrictor. The same goes for the yamato. The restrictor slows it on punch, but then it is a smokin' 30 at the end of the straight. That is where the 25's are getting beat. A 25 has to make it to the first turn with the 30's to have a chance. Once the big C boats leave the first turn, the little 25 boats enter a turn that looks like Mullet lake! Its all over then. I agree with the restrictor issue Mike but disagree on the yamato height. 1 3/8" will kill the yamato with it's fat gearfoot. Believe me I know I had the misfortune of my 20ssr class getting killed by that rule! But that's another story.
To my old buddy, Mike Ross. I have agreed with just about everything you've said except the fact the 25 drivers havent been doing their homework. Many have busted their butts only to get smoked. I worked on mine all winter. Then I get to Franklin this spring. You and Dewey passed me so fast going to the first turn I felt like I was in the wrong class! I put the rig on the trailer and said that's it, why beat my head against the wall until there are changes. I know we are not NASCAR but we better start acting like them to settle issues faster than our lack-a-daisy way. Hell, there are many good 25's that only run marathon's. Why should they run closed course and get trampled after paying 25.00 for a 5 minute boat ride behind the Ross brothers? I am sorry for forgeting about Brian Rhodes performance at the nats. He was a good 25 driver way back and he obviously hasn't lost his touch.
One last thought. The first year the combo came into the class was the summer of the Whitney Pt. nats in 2001. The C drivers hadnt figured out the props yet and I won my elimination heats overall only because Darrell Ludwig in his B Hotrod dropped to one cylinder right in front of me. Now that was parity and that was fun. It didnt matter what engine you had, you were competitive!
It is not necessary to speed up the 25 and B for parity. I feel the yamato needs top end erased by a little. I also feel that the alteration to the CSR must be easy to accomplish to make it a 25 so the C drivers still want to run the class and dont have to work too hard to make the switch.
So we have the idea of lowering the yamato, changing the restrictor & adding weight. Are there any other ideas out there? Runabouts in general need this class to work!
Thanks for reading, now I will shut up and listen.

[MGallagher]

Being a 25 driver and growing up watching the true 25SSR's run, it is hard to believe that any of the guys out the Merc challange days would have any problem kicken the hell out of us Yamato's today. Three cheers for Brian Rhodes, it was a real pleasure racing against everyone at Whitney Point("top knotch, top knotch!" Caddyshack). My point is that maybe there is a little work left to be done, and what could be done would be to have a R and D weekend somewhere in the Mid-west, where you can get 1 on 1 racing(merc and Yamato) and hammer out some results instead of all this guess work. By the time next year roles around I'm sure the 25 Yamatos will be around the fastest your going to get them. And, please no one complain about what a pain that idea is, it will get things accomplished! And who knows, this could become an invaluble weekend that can be used for other advancements in Stock outboard racing. Now if anybody can handle the possiblity of no points and no actual racing, R and D weekend could workout real well.

Matt Gallagher
58J

Congrats to Mike Perman!

[csh12M]

Quick Point

Hello Matt,

You mention that any of the old Merc Challenge guys could come back out and kick the hell out of you.....this whole thread started with David Dewalds record being broken with a Yamato. No one was better in 25SSR than he was and the Yamato just broke his record. A Yamato also broke the 3/4 mile record last year at Dayton. It is not rumour or guess work that the Yamato is faster it is fact...

Let the Hot Rod and yamato run at 3/4 of an inch, or better yet lower the Yamato to 1 3/8

Later,
12

[MGallagher]

Hi Dean,

Records are meant to be broken. Realitively speaking, I still beleive they could come back and kick the hell out of ME, at least. Also, I didn't speak of rumors, but until we can compare one on one the fastests rigs in the country(Yamato vs. Mercury) can we get any results. Racing can only give us so many answers, if we were to do it one on one we could establish much more concrete results. Between the two of those scenerios there would or should be no noticable parity. Boat size and design could also help the mercs be more competative, make it a roll up class, that would surely hurt the yamatos.

Matt Gallagher
58J

[mike ross]

I think Matt brings up a good idea about getting together and having a R & D day. We need to do this with all these combo classes. Get some of the rigs we no are competative on both sides and go run them. Get good data and then bring this stuff to the National Meeting and show it to the group. Last year at the National Meeting we had all kinds of ideas and no data to reference. How can we make changes when we don't know what we have currently. I no NASCAR doesn't just change because one of the other manufactures wins a race. They get teams together and test before changing things so they don't have a bunch of unhappy racers. The worst thing we can do is make a change and have one of the sides get all bent out of shape. That is why I call the Mercury guys out to get the rigs tested. I know the Yamato guys are testing heavily. New props, different boats, wider bottoms. I now if Brian Rodes can get a Mercury going others can to. Jeff I do understand were you are coming from also. It is discouriging when someone just drives by you after you worked hard to get your best rig going. Believe me we know. Go out and run against Rich Runne in CSR. We have finished 2nd to him 4 out of 5 years now. Rich Runne is what keeps me going. I have even had to go to his family to see if we can get a leg up on him. Thanks John Runne for the great boat. Lets get this R & D thing going before the weather goes away and bring some data to Atlanta so we make the right chnages. Mike

[Steve Warnock]

Mike/Matt and others,

The R&D day is exactly what we did one cold day(Oct 1984) at Kaukuana to establish the 25XS restrictor to be competitive to the 25SSH speeds at that time.

Synder, Hemp, Goll(CSH Merc), Warnock, Wienandt, Schmerbauch, Huaenstein, went and spent a day testing to get the speed comparison close to the 25SS so that the conversion from motors would be close and competetive to introduce the new motor without changing boats,props, and motors.

It can be done, we just need to do OUR homework and bring the data to the commission. This is something we rarely do and is greatly needed when the SORC/MORC and other commisions meet. We never have data, just speculations to make decisions. That is something that needs to change in our thinking process for change in general for all commissions. Bring that data and make sure it is validatable.

What your saying can be done and should be done. Grass Lake was a perfect avenue to have gotton this done. 20/20 hindsite! The players were there!

Peace!

Warbs

[MRIRACER]

Lets do the R&D

OK Guys who will show up at Grass Lake and do some R&D...think its a great Idea...You fellas in Wi....get together and compile some data, we'll compare. Mikey bring the GPS....I'll bring my small boat...lets get it done....Lets pick a weekend..talk w/Vic and Kurt and DO it. This is really cool...getting together to make racing FUN. Thanks for ALL the input......the NASCAR comparison is very good, we need to get our heads out of you know where. Anyone interested in give me a call..lv message if I don't answer 989 975 7747.

Mike 51M/Roger??M
Team Casual

[Steve Warnock]

OH I forgot one thing,

At Grass Lake, there was at least 5-6 Merc powered 25SSR entries in the Marathon that did not race the closed course race. I am not going to critize their option to run what they ran and they were all close MI/IN players so getting home should not be an issue, but I don't understand why they did not play the closed course game. Please explain!!!!!!

We all want boat time, why not play the closed course also!


Dear Abby-Don't understand from a racers point of veiw!

Steve

[Steve Warnock]

Mike,

Why wait to Grass Lake, Constantine will work also. But Grass Lake with Vic this year will work!!

Warbs