Live From Seattle - APBA Meeting

[14-H]

[B]**** Stock Outboard has no technical control over. The J committee is responsible for the Merc 15.
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***BW

This is also incorrect information. The SORC has exclusive jurisdiction over all technical rules for all engines in all classes in the Stock Outboard Category.

[Kev43V]

This is also incorrect information. The SORC has exclusive jurisdiction over all technical rules for all engines in all classes in the Stock Outboard Category.

True, Yet from the meeting it seems the rule of thumb is to just approve what the J committee approves. when it comes to the merc

[B Walker]

False Logic

If the rules are different for the Merc in A than in J and AX doesnt this increase the barrier to entry into Stock Outboard not decrease the barrier?

Using the balance scale of "reducing barriers to entry" on one side and creating parity between the Merc 15, OMC, and Sidewinder on the other my experience tells me the greater good of the current racers will be outweighed by that of non-member future racers.

You cant have it both ways. The parity comittee cannot make a single change to whatever the J committee approves for the Merc 15 without increasing the barrier to entry into Stock Outboard.

Brad Walker

[Kev43V]

False Logic

If the rules are different for the Merc in A than in J and AX doesnt this increase the barrier to entry into Stock Outboard not decrease the barrier?

Using the balance scale of "reducing barriers to entry" on one side and creating parity between the Merc 15, OMC, and Sidewinder on the other my experience tells me the greater good of the current racers will be outweighed by that of non-member future racers.

You cant have it both ways. The parity comittee cannot make a single change to whatever the J committee approves for the Merc 15 without increasing the barrier to entry into Stock Outboard.

Brad Walker

I hope you do not actually expect to see parity in A with the Merc. That would be the worst thing the parity committee could do

[B Walker]

I do not believe the Merc should even be in A. Not because I support one motor over another but because I believe we should not allow a motor into Stock Outboard that we dont have 100% control over the technical aspects. But I recognise the reality of the economy and the state of Stock Outboard that created the decision to allow it in A.

At the end of the day I am a practical realist.

I also believe there is a group of people that want to make the Merc 15 the dominant motor in A Stock. There is another group that wants no Sidewinder, ever, anywhere in Stock Outboard.

These groups of people use a variety of political tactics to move their agenda forward. Incrementalism is one of their favorite tactics.

The modifications allowed to the Merc 15 have increased the speeds significantly scince the motor was first approved. There is every indication that the modifications list allowed on the Merc 15 will increase rather than decrease.

You cant put the genie back in the bottle.

I am sure this will continue to be a hot topic in the pits for the rest of this year.

Brad Walker

[Big Don]

Stock Outboard has 100% control over all the technical changes. The SORC approves their own rules. If the J committee allows then to open the ports that does not mean we have to allow it.

People talk about all these changes that the J committees have allowed. Yes, they have opened it up so you can use any ring. In my opinion two reason, they can’t tell by inspecting which ones are original and which one are not. (BTW our engines still has the factory rings in them) And they allowed the plugging of the thermostat housing. Why? Because there are parents out there cheating and doing it in the tower and you can’t catch them. So they leveled the playing field. (By the way we have only ran one race with our Thermostat housing plugged) So it’s not like I’m trying to protect our own interest. I believe they did what was best for the sport and class.

I never heard any indication that anyone has the intention of trying to give the Mercury an advantage in A.

I also have not heard of any “group” that is against the Sidewinder. Are there a few individuals? Maybe… but I have not heard from anyone that is against the project. There are some that don’t support all the changes but against it? Nope don’t buy it. Maybe if there is one person out there they will come forward or maybe Bill will enlighten us as to who these people are.

[Richard Hearn]

For those of you who know me well know that for sport (and what good sport it is) I will take the opposite side of Ed (Scott, you and I might become good friends soon…).

However, I really don’t get the lightening rod anger towards the Merc and the OMC and the Sidewinder all in the A class (same issue for other classes). Nor to I get the issue with more classes. Last, I don't get the $4500 new motor a theory for killing the classes. I did a little research this morning. Here is what I came up with for other motor sports:

Motors
- Nascar Cup Cars: Ford, Chevy, Toyota (successful)
- IRL: 1 motor (killed the sport)

Here is what I find most interesting. The QMA (Quarter Midgets) has 4000 members. The classes can only be raced from ages 5 to 16. Here is a list of classes and motors and prices for chassis, motor and tires (aka props). Notice that there are over 16 classes and 8 motors just for the 5 – 16 year old kids! The prices seem to be the same / similar to that which APBA has. Is the fact that the QMA sport is growing and there are lots of classes and motors a coincidence? I’ll leave the theory masturbation to you guys... The QMA seems like a model that works…

Quarter Midget Statistics
Quarter Midgets have been around in one form or another since before WWII, There are two sanctioning bodies for Quarter Midgets, United States Auto Club (USAC) and Quarter Midgets of America (QMA). There were over 4,000 drivers in the United States in 2007. In the United States, an engine can cost from $400 to $9,000, the car chassis from $1,500 for a used up to $6,000 for a new chassis. Tires start at $50 a tire. There are many brands of cars as well as custom cars made by individuals. Some of the common brands are Stanley Racing, N/C chassis (Nervo/Coggin, Bullrider Racecars, Tad Fiser Race Cars, Rice Cars, GT American Race Cars, and Profab. Cars are protected by body panels which are made of fiberglass, sheetmetal, or more rarely, carbon fiber.

The move from Deco to Honda was first highlighted by an exhibition race at the 1988 Western Grands in Pueblo, CO. The Honda engine proved to be the saving element as cost were skyrocketing with the Deco engine due to supply and demand. Attempts to put the Deco/Continental engines back into production have failed. Briggs and Stratton is also being used as a cost effective engine platform.

The oldest continually run dirt quarter midget track east of the Mississippi is THQMA (Terre Haute Quarter Midget Association) located in Terre Haute, Indiana On the west coast, Capitol Quarter Midgets has also been in operation since 1955. Many of todays most recognizable names in racing got their start in quarter midgets including; A.J. Foyt, Jeff Gordon, Sarah Fisher, Jimmy Vasser, Joey Logano, Terry and Bobby Labonte to name a few.

Engines and classes
• Jr Novice & Sr. Novice - Honda 120(stock) , or a Deco Super Stocker (stock, restricted)
• Jr honda & Sr. Honda - Honda 120 (stock)
• Hvy. Honda - Honda 120 (stock)
• Lt. & Hvy. 160 - Honda 160 (stock)
• Jr. & Sr. Super Stock - Deco stock engine
• Lt. & Hvy. Mod - Deco Modified engine
• Lt. & Hvy. B Modified - Deco B Modified engine
• Lt. & Hvy. AA Modified - Alcohol Deco AA Modified engine
• World Formula - Briggs and Stratton World Formula engine
• Half Midget - Any single cylinder motor, 253 cc maximum displacement, air cooled only
• Jr. Classes - 5-9 years old
• Sr. Classes - 9-till 17th Birthday
• Light Classes - Drivers normally under 100 lb but can still race if over 100 lb
• Heavy Classes - Drivers over 100 lb

[Matt Dagostino]

Time for some schooling

However, I really don’t get the lightening rod anger towards the Merc and the OMC and the Sidewinder all in the A class (same issue for other classes). Nor to I get the issue with more classes. Last, I don't get the $4500 new motor a theory for killing the classes.

Richard
Nice chatting with you in Seattle. First off, don't get to friendly with Scott, he has a lot of bad habits!!

The 'lightning rod ' issue is a historical matter. The silent majority saw the previos SORC's action to kick the Merc 15 to the curb as a slap in the face to our roots! Stock Outboarding has been and hopefully will continue to be grass roots racing which stresses affordability and accessability to like equipment from bonified engine companies. The Merc 15 is the essence of what we are. A factory (mass) produced fishing engine converted to a race engine! Similar engine include(d) the ole Merc KG-4, the Merc 20h, 30h, 55h, OMC 15, etc etc. These engines represented stability for decades in there respective classes which were uninterupted by competing engines in those classes. In another words, ONE ENGINE PER CLASS. My experience tells me drivers in general do not want several manufactures fighting it out for dominence in a class. For one, most of us can't afford to have one of each engine to play the game of which engine is better on any given weekend and secondly those that would argue for parity committe's are fooling themselves. It is virtually impossible to maintain parity between engine manufactures in a given class. A parity committe's job at the end of the day will and should be to allow the perceived MOTOR OF CHOICE to stay out front and allow 'all the rest' to just provide numbers on the race course and in the class nationally.

As far as your $4500 plus point on new engines.......that is what the price of racing is nowadays. It is a tuff pill to swollow as cost of living wages have not kept up with inflation over the past 25 years. We have been fortunate with manufactures like Yamato Merc and OMC being in the picture for the past several decades providing well below market cost for GREAT engines and parts. Now it is time to see if there are enough members both new and old that can keep pace. It's a funny thing though, i am close with Gary Pond and George Stillwill and it's funny how many members who post on Hydroracer and race in the Stock Outboard family who seem very well off finacially are constantly calling these guys looking for 'deals' in lieu of buying NEW parts that are factory available.

Guess we all have a little 'yard sale' in us.........

[Richard Hearn]

Yard Sale...

Guess we all have a little 'yard sale' in us.........

Matt, do you know anywhere I can get some used Merc J/AX flywheels!?!