Kevlar suit certs...

[Fast Jack]

testing

As a member of the modified commission we voted down the proposel to test cut suits ,as there is already a provision for a Ref to reject unsafe equipment , As I had stated I am awaiting Duponts reply as to testing material. I did find there are Certified testing agents for manufactured products using Duponts fibers. As time allows I will contact several of them . I have not been able up to this point to determine if testing is needed. I looked at my sleaves and there is no exposed kevlar material . I dont know how the ( kevlar ) material can be tested without removing the outer layer of nylon. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on how the proposed testing will be done.

[reed28n]

Fast Jack

You totally missed the point of the proposal. I guess we didn't do a very good job of explaining the conversations that were held before this motion passed.

The concern was the suit as a whole. Zippered, duct taped, worn through, beat up etc.... there is a visual inspection of the kevlar material itself that is better left to the manufacturer and a reccommendation made.

The discussion centered around setting a minimum standard and a tag that an inspector or referee could check to see that the equipment was up to date.

This is incrementally safer for all participants and will decrease the likelihood of serious injury.

I would support your effort to find a suitable test that could be done.

[jtower3941]

Just a question. Is telling a racer that his cut suit does not meet visual standards by an inspector mean that the suit meets all standards. To meet all standards the suit would have to be taken apart and tested. Or do you stand in front of a ref. with shot gun and if your still alive after he shots you it passes LOL but realy not funney. The point was good about not having testing standards for all to read.

[jtower3941]

cut suits

Sorry I ment meets visusal standard, I said does not meet visual standard.

[Jack Stotts]

This whole issue reminds me of a few years past when folks over 60 had to have a Dr. cert to race. The only problem was that there was no standard provided. So the Dr did not really know what was passing and what was not. So what was accomplished. Every year at the national meeting this sort of issue comes up and causes a lot of heartburn because it is not thought through. I say, if you are dumb enough to run zipperless or duct taped cut suits then it's your problem. The rule is fine the way it is. We use to have helmet rules on currency but that has died. Lets quit messing with the rule book and enforce what we already have. It is not a requirement to change the book each year just to prove that we had a meeting.

I could live with a visual inspection of the garmet with specifics of what constituted a no-pass condition. But who in their right mind will certify a four year old garmet as being fully operational when the same folks sell new ones. Also we tend to refer to cut suits as being Kevlar but some are other material.

[sam]

I think specifically outlawing open seams, breaks in fabric and duct tape repairs would have been a lot better than requiring recertification. If these specific words were in the rule book, there would be no question about whether any particular garment is suitable to use.

Going into next year's national meeting I will urge the Mod commission to adopt this language instead of being tempted to follow Stock's lead.

[Al Peffley]

Cut Suit Clarification

Pat,

Does my new cut suit jacket that I just bought around Christmas time from SRP have an acceptable label on it? Does this rule change apply to just Stock classes for November 2009 compliance, or does it also apply to APBA Pro classes? Sounds like the Mod guys did not accept the new cut suit inspection rule as currently written for Stock classes.

Al

[Graham 18ce]

My understanding is this is Stock Only.
J, ASX, MOD, PRO - do not need to cert the safety gear.

I could be wrong, but that is the way i have heard this.

Cheers

[sam]

Mod minutes say they did not act to require certification ... at this time

[dil/viller]

gotta say , i see this rule as just another way to get money out of the racers pocket. think of the family's that race as a family. shipping alone cost way to much nowadays. sorc in my opin. got hogwashed by the manufacturer.

[laddies]

This is a typical ruling from stock outboard, every year it comes up with another way to extort more money from the drivers, in the guise of safety. Then sit around and wonder why the sport is dying, It's simple look at the cost for equipment today's safety equipment is more than a complete rig in stockoutboards heyday, there are to many people trying to make a living off the drivers and other participants of the sport. The continue changing of rules and bending them for different companies and individuals is killing a great family sport I have said that for years.

[sponsonhead]

Pat,

Does my new cut suit jacket that I just bought around Christmas time from SRP have an acceptable label on it? Does this rule change apply to just Stock classes for November 2009 compliance, or does it also apply to APBA Pro classes? Sounds like the Mod guys did not accept the new cut suit inspection rule as currently written for Stock classes.

Al

Al, check your PM's.

R-19

[Hunter]

cut suits and safety gear

....this cut suit issue is beginning to sound like yet another governing entity determined to protect us from ourselves.I have seen the evolution of safety standards for boat racing change throughout 50 years.I can remember dudes in leather helmets and bathing suits and a kapok life jacket.Once in awhile,someone got hurt.Technology of safety measures advances and usually the prudent risk-taker decides to upgrade or peer pressure helps him to make this decision.Sometimes a regulatory nudge is required.Clearly it is premature to mandate cut suit up-grade based on looks.The material is extremely rugged even when it is nasty looking. I had some fools at a hospital insist on getting my suit off in pieces rather than dragging it off of me.It turned out to be a major project.The best suit will not save you from injury.My worst "cut" was on my leg....inside of the cut pants which had nary a scratch.The fabric could not cut so the muscle just burst right to the bone. It might have been easier to repair if it had been a clean cut.Then again,I could now have one short leg.
Bottom line is there should be a test procedure as simple as a fuel test to determine the acceptability of the suit.If APBA insists on making us safer,better neck protection is the issue to start on and is very affordable to
add to your equipment list. My two cents worth...HG,8n

[ram95]

This is personal protective gear. we buy it, we maintain it. It is not issued to us by some agency who bears the responsiblility for its serviceability. We are the ultimate arbiter of its condition. That's the way it needs to stay. I don't need someone telling me when to change my underwear or socks or certify my personal stuff. This aint no parachute which could fail and cause me to fall into your barbeque pit and ruin yer pic nic.

That being said, how about writing the rule and presenting it to the membership for input and review before it gets put into effect. And while we're at it, how about the certification be done by an independent outfit not connected with the manufacturer.

Uh ooohhhh...... here we gooooooooo down the slope.

[Kev43V]

I just do not understand why the people that have a problem with the rule did not pipe up BEFORE the meeting? what is the point of debating it after the fact. the time for debate was before the meeting.

I personaly like the mod idea better than the rule that was passed for stock.