Kevlar suit certs...

[blueskyracer]

This is a typical ruling from stock outboard, every year it comes up with another way to extort more money from the drivers, in the guise of safety. Then sit around and wonder why the sport is dying, It's simple look at the cost for equipment today's safety equipment is more than a complete rig in stockoutboards heyday, there are to many people trying to make a living off the drivers and other participants of the sport. The continue changing of rules and bending them for different companies and individuals is killing a great family sport I have said that for years.

You are so right on this statement. Bought all new from SRP last year for $1500 and I bet it does't have this tag they want so now I have to ship it back ( probably pay for shipping both ways) for a goofy tag.

Between this and our 2 year 102's it just don't seem to ever end. And of coarse AOF added a requirement for all helmets to be M2000 or better this year. Hopefully money will start growing on trees. LOL

[ram95]

I just do not understand why the people that have a problem with the rule did not pipe up BEFORE the meeting? what is the point of debating it after the fact. the time for debate was before the meeting.


I personaly like the mod idea better than the rule that was passed for stock.

Your point is valid. However, I don't feel this issue was very well publicized before the meeting. And, it would have been nice to have had more racers in the audience voicing their concerns. Not everyone on the commission voted in favor of it.

Not everyone can afford to attend these meetings. We need a better forum within APBA so that rule proposals can be thoroughly discussed. Then the rule should be written and published for a final review and comment period. We need better member input on these things. In the meantime, I'm greatful for Hydro-Racer.
Alex

[sam]

We need a better forum within APBA so that rule proposals can be thoroughly discussed. Then the rule should be written and published for a final review and comment period. We need better member input on these things. In the meantime, I'm greatful for Hydro-Racer.
Alex

Regular rule changes are open for review and comment before voting by mail. "Safety rules" are not open to "review and comment" in our current procedures. This was enacted as a safety rule.

[jtower3941]

Im all for safety rules. For years many common sense safety issues were not taken very seriously. The issue of having a tag on cut suit that was purchased within a few years along with some older one's that have not seen the water or used much, needs to be discussed. Observation of a cut suit and common sense places the observer in a position of having his judgment questioned, if he says yes OK or No get it fixed, with no written guidense, is a can of worms, I do belive that even if it is a safety rule and can be place current racing season. It must be discussed and owners of suit given a time period to have tags. Without written guidense on cut suit from manufactor or at least from SORC or a committee, leaves it open to judgment, opinion and argument. Tags no issue, no tag, send it back. But even this as stated above. Tagging of suit not used much or fairly new, ya whats faily new, needs to be discussed. Just my two cents.

Jim Tower 118P

PS But that is new duct tape just this year. ?????

[reed28n]

A couple things

If you just purchased your safety equipment, I am sure there is a tag, if you purchased before they starting using the tags, contact your supplier.

No one was trying to tax racers with more cost.

The agenda was published and all issues were made available for the very reasons that have been stated here. The SORC has a responsiblity to be tansparent to all of the Stock members. There was ample time to debate this subject before any vote was taken.

I suspect that if you are posting here you have the time to look up the agenda, you have the time to contact you commissioner and you have the computer savvy to get all of this done before the meeting. Your involvement did not need to be at the meeting.

If you were at the meeting, everyone in the room had an equal opportunity to let their opinion be known and no vote was taken until everyone had their say.

This debate should have taken place prior to arriving in Raleigh.

[Andrew 4CE]

Believe it or not... I'm new to APBA... I joined once or twice in 1997 time frame... and I joined in 2008. Both times one shot deals so I could run in Nationals events.

A couple people have said "why didn't you bring this up before the convention?" I don't recalled getting any info that certifying of Kevlars was on the agenda? How do they spread this info around prior to the convention? Snail mail? Email? Propeller? Hydroracer? Stock Outboard website? Just wondering what I missed so next time I'll know where to look.

Edit: To add... I'll admit I wasn't really looking for it either... not normally being a member.

[Graham 18ce]

So, Just wondering, if the safety of the drivers was the important issue at hand, how does it fall on Stock only? Mod, Pro and J don't need to be made safe? Interesting.

[Dave M]

Smarter

So, Just wondering, if the safety of the drivers was the important issue at hand, how does it fall on Stock only? Mod, Pro and J don't need to be made safe? Interesting.

Apparently they did not like the fancy wording and saw it as a can of worms. It was discussed as mentioned though. Never fear, if they passed a mirror rule for laydown boats, they will get a cut suite rule shaoved down through the saftey rule avenue. Kind of like the tuck rule for FAH....... Mod did not accept the rule and bam, a few days before the Winter Nat's it was passed as a saftey rule and no choice by the COmmission or chairman. The chairman at the time was very against it.

Politics... gotta love it.

[Kev43V]

You are so right on this statement. Bought all new from SRP last year for $1500 and I bet it does't have this tag they want so now I have to ship it back ( probably pay for shipping both ways) for a goofy tag.

Between this and our 2 year 102's it just don't seem to ever end. And of coarse AOF added a requirement for all helmets to be M2000 or better this year. Hopefully money will start growing on trees. LOL

(an attempt at humor) No money does not grow on trees it is still a blend of cotton and linen the last i checked. so it is not paper made from wood pulp

[reed28n]

Categories

So, Just wondering, if the safety of the drivers was the important issue at hand, how does it fall on Stock only? Mod, Pro and J don't need to be made safe? Interesting.

While APBA is working on getting all of the categories together on some rules, all categories operate independently. Pro's have a uniform rule that does not cross categories.... while we are in the same family and we all agree we want to promote safety and boat racing we do not always agree on the path to get there.

[reed28n]

As a member

Believe it or not... I'm new to APBA... I joined once or twice in 1997 time frame... and I joined in 2008. Both times one shot deals so I could run in Nationals events.

A couple people have said "why didn't you bring this up before the convention?" I don't recalled getting any info that certifying of Kevlars was on the agenda? How do they spread this info around prior to the convention? Snail mail? Email? Propeller? Hydroracer? Stock Outboard website? Just wondering what I missed so next time I'll know where to look.

Edit: To add... I'll admit I wasn't really looking for it either... not normally being a member.

Andrew,

You may be new to APBA as a member, but you and your family have been around a very long time. You are one the more computer savvy people that surfs this site. The information about the topics to be discussed was available. There is no magic formula for any safety issue to find the favor of every member in every category in every corner of the world. There was an intent by the commission to do what was for the good of the whole.

New Prop $350
Prop Rework $60
New Paint $500
Engine Bore $100
Pistons $100
Tires for your trailer $150
New Helmet $250
Fancy Helmet Paint job $100
Gas to the Race $100 easy
Recertification $40 plus shipping
One cut at the emergency room $ 1000

Avoiding serious injury because someone recommended replacement of your kevlar and the kevlar did its job.................... well you know the rest.

[mercguy]

Andrew,

You may be new to APBA as a member, but you and your family have been around a very long time. You are one the more computer savvy people that surfs this site. The information about the topics to be discussed was available. There is no magic formula for any safety issue to find the favor of every member in every category in every corner of the world. There was an intent by the commission to do what was for the good of the whole.

New Prop $350
Prop Rework $60
New Paint $500
Engine Bore $100
Pistons $100
Tires for your trailer $150
New Helmet $250
Fancy Helmet Paint job $100
Gas to the Race $100 easy
Recertification $40 plus shipping
One cut at the emergency room $ 1000

Avoiding serious injury because someone recommended replacement of your kevlar and the kevlar did its job.................... well you know the rest.

$500 for a boat paint job and $100 for a helmet paint job..................****, where do I go for those prices????

[ryan_4z]

I'm curious as to how many incidents occured where people have been cut through their cut suit. What is the problem with the way things were? And what ever happened to people taking personal responsibility for their own safety?

To everyone who thinks this is BS: Don't stop complaining because some say you should have voiced your opinion before. As the electors of our representatives, it is our job to tell them not only how we would like them to vote, but also, let them know when they have done something we disagree with.

[Cameraboy]

A simple solution would be to require the following from each participant (driver, crew, family member, hot pit visitor, and spectator within a safety zone) at a race:

1. Proof of a minimum $250,000 of medical and $250,000 personal liability insurance.
2. A signature indemnifying the sanctioning body, sponsoring club, sponsoring club officials, race officials, property owners, involved government agencies, etc. from personal and financial liability.
3. A signature stating that you the undersigned take full legal and financial responsibility for your actions at the event.

Then maybe commissioners and race officials wouldn't have to nickel and dime you on safety, and APBA wouldn't have to carry as much insurance on our behalf (and at our cost). But even with all of those signatures you could find a lawyer who would still sue everyone listed above on your behalf to recover damages if you were injured. And maybe win.

I'm a real hard case about affordability. If you can't afford decent safety gear, you can't afford to race. If you can't afford decent health insurance, you can't afford to race. If my driver can't meet these two criteria this season, I'm auditioning for other folks to fill cockpits.

Because accidents are expensive. If you slice an arm in an accident near a decent-sized metropolitan area, sure - the $20K that the APBA blanket policy has available will help cover a lot of that, even a little surgery and rehab. If you suffer internal injuries at a more remote site, and after transport to the local hospital, they airlift you to a larger one, and the larger one decides you need invasive surgery - that $20K won't even cover 10% of your costs. And that doesn't include rehab.

Just think things through so that the couple hundred dollars you're going to save on safety gear or insurance doesn't cost your friends the time and donations to help cover your medical bills (we'll be gladly doing that for folks with or without good safety gear ), or the money to defend themselves in court when your bulldog of a lawyer comes after them for damages (NOTE: I'm not trashing lawyers here - it's their job to protect their clients' interests).

[sam]

What is the problem with the way things were? And what ever happened to people taking personal responsibility for their own safety?

There was a problem with people wearing worn out ripped up junk that they think meets the letter of the rule and referees and risk managers being either too lazy or afraid of personal interaction to call them on it.

As far as taking personal responsibility ... if that worked everyone would have worn life jackets and helmets without being required. It just never worked, its not human nature.

I do think the SOC went too far in requiring recert ... clarifying the past rules to specify all snaps and zippers be fully functional and all seams be intact and panels without holes ... then announcing that pants and sleeves would be inspected and rejected if not meeting the clarification.

I urge Mod to consider this for next year.