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And the OMC isnt 15 cu in it 13. something and the 15 Merc is 16 cu in. Out boards have always been HP and not cu in or cc's and the only question that is always asked is how fast does it go not motor size or if not at a race the question is what is it to start with and then were is the motor at then where do you sit. It keeps coming up spectator sport this never has been or is or ever will be a spectator sport as long as we are in a va*** bottle that 90 percent of the population ever knows about.CC's work in Pro as that is pretty much the only rule thhey have for motors. Mods are a spin off of Stocks with motors sizes over lap and is much easier to understand then the CC rule now in effect. Our sport is basiclly just a bunch of friends getting to gether and racing for ourselves and done as a hobbie.
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Destiny is a matter of chance,it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. -
Mod Meeting
#1: I don’t like the CC designation either UNLESS you get the Stock guys to go along with it also. Then we would have Stock, Mod and Pro all on the same page, that I would like!
#2: I don’t personally run this class but hey why not? If it is good enough for OSY then what’s the big deal? Does the 202 have a performance advantage?
#3: I can see both sides to this proposal after all it’s the lower unit/gear case/foot that is in short supply.
#4: Now this is a class that I race Formula E, oops I mean 850 Mod. I’m always open to more motors(see my other post later in this thead) and more choices that’s what will lead to groth of the Mod category. You are always going to have those deep pocket racers and I’m fine with that. The thing I like about the Mod category is that your you can use your imagination and ingenuity as opposed to just the trial and error method.B16Rian LaChapelleComment
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Four stroke motors
Four Stoke Motors (here is a chance for the Mod category to take the lead):
I think there is no denying that 4 stroke engines will play a part in our future but what we don’t want is to get a few years down the road when and where they are forced on us and we have to make the switch in short order.
Watch a Moto cross race on TV and all you see are 4stroke bikes, something that wouldn’t even seem possible 15 years ago. A dirt bike guy I work with tells me that you can’t hardly even buy a 2 stroke dirt bike anymore. I think Honda gave up on the 2 stoke years ago but don’t get me wrong, I’m not in favor of hurrying up their demise and as long as we keep running 2 strokes great!
A few years ago the Pro guys made it legal for 4 stoke engines in each class at a displacement rate of 150% (525cc 4 stoke in the 350cc class). Even giving a 50% displacement advantage I think 4 strokes will have a tough time in the Pro class but with lots of money who knows. But I do think the Pro guys were on to something. Many of you might not even know it but there is a 4 stroke engine that is legal for the Formula E / 850 Mod Class and that is the 50hp Suzuki outboard. Ever seen one of these racing?
The problem with that motor its too heavy, too hard to find and too expensive.
My proposal is simple, allow any 4 stroke motor of any origin (outboard, motorcycle, quad, whatever) with no open pipes and no multiple gear shifting that meet the displacement of each class and to run on pump gas.
My goal is to more choices with more competition and as a bonus we can claim to be Eco friendly to new race sites. How fast will a 4 stroke be nobody knows but I think its time to find out.B16Rian LaChapelleComment
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Why Not Shifting?
Seems that I've looked at several WRECKED motorcycles and said to myself, "Self, that motr could be mounted on a mid section and gearcase....and use the tranny that is built in... Then, I say.....too much work..."
old Schools guys used to use Yamaha cyclinders on 4:60 crankcases...
Would a four stroke cyclinder assembly bolt up to a new crankcase????
I can't even find a HATCH gearcase, where would I find time to build a four stroke outboard????
Maybe like use a Honda Outboard powerhead?
Got some 44 Merc stuff I'd like to sell....I have four crankshafts that use the belts, and five blocks with offset heads and long threads....Was considering building a D MOD but have focused other places....Comment
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We are talking about a mod class running a stock 102 302 lower unit is not very safe when you start lifting the moter up high to run fASTER an then you lose your water an burn your moter up SO we shape the unit an put the noise cone on to make it safer an run higher NOW buy the time you do all that you could buy a hatchet foot and they are a much beter unit for running high and handel a lot better then any 102 302 unit so i dont belive that its a money thing i run both units on my c mod runabout an the hatchet foot is a hole lot better and i only payed 450 for itLonnie MorrisComment
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Shifting
I said no shifting for a couple of reasons. First: just to keep things simple. Shifting under power could get expensive, I just don't think the foot could hold up.Originally posted by Ron Hill View Post
Second: This would be hard enough to pass but if a six speed transmission were to become part of the proposal the complaining would become unbearable.
I would like to see a 4 stroke option that current racers would not be afraid of.B16Rian LaChapelleComment
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Bracket Racers...
There are few Professional Drag (car) racer, but there are thousands of "Bracket Racers"...in this country.
We have three classes in Region 12 that, in my observations, seem to help boat racing....These three class are called Nostalgia Jet, Nostalgia Flat Bottom and Nostalgia Endurance.
We have two requirments for each class...Must use a YELLOW Garmin GPS and the Speed Limit is 80 MPH....
These three classes are a "CATCH ALL" for new and old drivers alike. You go over 80, you get docked one lap, go over 85, you are out for the weekend... (85 deal is because guys were using Nostalgia to test props and making 110 passes and screwing up the racing)..
This will be the fifth season of Nostalgia Racing, I've seem more than a dozen penalties for "BREAKING OUT" (Going over 80)...But I've never seen anyone argue with the GPS....(Who can argue??).
Make sure here that you understand, they ARE RACING...starts are important, corning speed is important...In Nostalgia Endurance you see outboards, tunnel inboards, blown V-Drives....Diesels....I've never seen a group that seems to ENJOY RACING more that the Nostalgia guys...AND some move on to other classes. Nostalgia is a means to an end in itself, but also give people a place to "TEST THEIR WINGS"...and see if they want to go faster.....than 80.
We run a V Hull Outboard, that at 80 MPH she handles OK....80 MPH is a nice speed for people...She's a fun ride..
Seems to me, a LOCAL (Probationary) MOD NOSTALIGIA class with say a 65 MPH speed limit might be worth trying, as most clubs could use the extra entry fees...(I think)...
You want parity??? The GPS give it....
LONNIE: That $450 gearcase going on theat D Mod you trying to sell me??? If you want any or all of the parts I showed it the picture...I'll send them to you...
ADD: I'd like to borrow a HATCH GEARCASE so I could have a pattern made off of it. For the use of the gearcase, I'll give you one of the first PRODUCTION casaes (Housing)...I'm thinking of making the casting out of stainless steel so I could have a longer skeg, and thinner pieces.....that run through the water... Contact me: ronhill@hillmarine.com if you have a Hatch Case to loan (I don't need a good case) as I will probably only measure it and cut an mold with a CNC mill!...Last edited by Ron Hill; 11-29-2008, 10:15 AM.Comment
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rambling.......
Ron, we already have a "somewhat" mod nostalgia class..........it is call Amod, Bmod, Cmod, Dmod.............Originally posted by Ron Hill View Post
you have WAY TOO MANY ideas for new classes, work with the ones we already have! Last year (or so), you wanted to start Fat C, then a shifter OMC class, then.............now, something else...............we already have ENOUGH classes as it is............there is a class for everyone to fit in............
now, back to SERIOUS Mod proposals...............
Daren
DSH/750ccmh/850ccmh
Team Darneille
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-and profile it, and change the prop shaft to 15mm or 9/16", or whatever suits your props. By the time one pays to get all this done, you are only $250 short of a brand new Konny, or HR/OMC. I guess some guys think a motor builder will get an advantage using an obscure old unit. But as all mod classes 500cc and up have no height limit, and most run above the water, there is little effect from the torpedo tube as it is mostly out of the water. It really comes down to skeg, prop, and setup.Originally posted by Morris85C View Post
Gear ratios are a different matter and maybe we follow NBRA with only one tooth over/under. That, and a minimum R dim, say 1.85" , or maybe 2"[?] would keepout the 'one-off' exotics.
If anything, this year, we should allow the readily available and cheap 102/302 boots to run under any mod class.Brian Hendrick, #66 F
"the harder we try, the worser it gets"
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Allow Power Trim in FE Hydro
Allow power trim in FE Hydro.
Reason: Speeds are very high in FE, and building a capsuled hydro would make a lot os sense...Power trim would make this easier....And, of course, we could run our 45 SS with MOD motors in FE hydro.....
****, ther I go, MOD 45 SS....
Let's see, we had the fourth annual Blue Water Resort and Casino 300 Enduro, 46 entries, no APBA Classes, seven Divisions with handicap starts...race last 4 hours....
Going to Whitney Point, NY was a great experience for me....Going to local races and seeing three boat races.....seems if there was a class where you could get about 10 boats on the water at one time...might be cool...
At Parker this weekend:
There were 10 45's
3-J Hydros
3-AXS Hydros
4-A Hydros
4-20 Hydros
4-C Hydros
I think I'm right here... ten heats for about ten drivers...I realize Region 12 is unique....no mods....
There were 17 45's at San Diego, most would run FE Hydro is power trim were legal! BUT, does MOD want tunnel boats running side by side with laydown hydros??? I know the PRO Division wrote a rule to keep tunnel out....Comment
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Mod is OK with tunnels, not OK with the added complexity of power trim.
I doubt it could actually be used successfully in mod anyway ... the 10 year old kilo speed for FE is almost 20 mph faster than 45 and many of today's top runners are running close to that record speed in competition. The lap speed records in FE are between 5 and 10 mph faster and were set before the current batch of really fast motors hit the water 6 or 7 years agoComment
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1.85 or larger would keep out hatchets and old pointy rear load Yamato pro units, they are neither rare nor exotic. I just measured mine and was surprised they are that thin.Originally posted by bh/ View PostComment
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Well....
If you look at some of the PRO capsuled hydros, and Jason Nari's new Pro hydros, I personally would feel much better driving with power trim.....
There are more than a dozen 45 boats in Regions 10-11 and 12 that really aren't up to the current specs of 45 boats....A 45 runs about 70 on a 35 second course...we can run 80 on a long course...45's are two bangers....
IF we modified them some they's pick up some speed, if we switched to a three banger power head...we'd go a hundred...
Just an idea here...
I know for a fact, region 12 need every dime we can get, from entry fees, to stay alive...I've been trying to get Formula A going, just so Marlee could get more time on the water...Being able to run 45 MOD or STOCK as a Formula F Hydro, would give us a class to draw 8-10 more entries, which might make the difference from the club losing money and breaking even...
Actually, I'd be happy to see trim made legal even if points weren't given...Kind of test the water here! I know one thing, watching Formula E's go, at the NY Nationals and LA Winter Nationals, I know someone could get hurt in one of those ROCKETS...Last edited by Ron Hill; 11-29-2008, 06:47 PM.Comment
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power trim????
Originally posted by Ron Hill View Post
how many "blow overs" do you think would result from the use of power trim on an FE??? I believe you have more "reaction time" (and control) using trim in a tunnel/capsule boat (where you are sitting down), then you would in a "kneeler" or "laydown" type race boat......
next idea Ron??????
switching to a 3holer would not put you at 100MPH!Last edited by mercguy; 11-29-2008, 06:56 PM.Daren
DSH/750ccmh/850ccmh
Team Darneille
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We Would Be Sitting Down...
Laydowns and kneeldowns still have body weight to effect their trim. When we ran Kevin Curtis's 45 in FE at Bakerfield's Winter Nationals, we un hooked his trim, but Kevin wasn't confortable without it...
OK, make power trim only legal in set down FE Hydros...
IS the Mercury A, AXS, J legal in Formula A....or only the OMC???Comment
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