Tohatsu vs. Merc 44xs

[randyrap]

I plan on racing DSH in Ontario, Canada for 2008 and want to gain some info regarding the two power plants currently available. Any personal information or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I'm not trying to stir things up. I just want to hear what others have to say.

I've contacted a few racers directly and have received mixed reviews. I've heard everything from the Tohatsu being a bolt on rocket ... to it possibly being unavailable for 2008 because of it not getting an EPA exemption.

Thanks in advance ......... Randy

[HRTV]

Here we go

Oh boy get the popcorn ready

[randyrap]

I'm hoping this thread will not turn into a ''Battle Royale''. I want to get INFO that will help me decide on what power plant to choose. I want to hear the pros and cons of both engines. Thanks again .... Randy

My e-mail is randy_rap@cogeco.ca if anyone wishes to contact me directly with info. I will keep all info confidential.

[Jeff Akers]

Randy, I don't have any performance information for you between the two engines.I will be racing with a Bass Tohatsu in 08 though ...For EPA info I would call Bass Machines at 360-373-3839 they would be the ones to know if this was going to be an issue

As with you, I hope this thread dosn't turn in to a P!ss mach.

Hope we can all gain some insight from those that have run BOTH engines.

and just for the record ...I'm all for adding NEW engines to STOCK,MOD,PRO,or What ever !

What ever you decide, I wish you the best of luck and HAVE FUN !

[jeff55v]

Bass/Tohatsu.

I've never owned a 44xs, so I cannot compare between the two. I can however, give you a brief overview of my Bass/Tohatsu experience:

1.) I bought my engine and volunteered that it be dyno tested to gather some class parity data. My powerhead was shipped directly from Bass Machines to Weinandt Performance Technology for evaluation.
2.) After dyno testing, I recieved my powerhead. I opted to have the crankshaft pins welded to improve the engine's durability. I also installed full carburator butterflies made by Alan Brown. No other powerhead work was done.
3.) I bolted the motor on my old B&H hydro and used my favorite DMH prop. With NO testing at all, the setup was fairly competitive with some of the fastest DSH's in the country. It would have done very well if a better driver were behind the wheel.
4.) Mid-way thru my season, I replaced the original reeds with Boyesen reeds. It took me about 1/2 an hour to put them in. I also replaced the original spark plugs at this time.
5.) I completed the Top O' Michigan marathon with no engine problems whatsoever. ( As you'd expect from a new engine)

I am very happy with my Bass/Tohatsu engine.


I'll Email my phone number to you if you'd like more information.

[sadiemydog1]

Tohatsu

We have a Tohatsu on order. should be here by the end of Jan. At the NBRA Short course Nats there were four there. All ran well. In fact one won. Looks like there willl be 5 or 6 running at NBRA races this year.
Art K

[krazy karl]

Merc vs Tohatsu

I may not be an expert on this having never run a Tohatsu and have had very limited success with the Merc. The Merc is going to be a lot simpler to work on but parts are getting harder and harder to find and are getting very expensive when you can find them. I just paid almost $200 for a used drive shaft and I still need gears which are also going to be big $$'s. It was also a major project to find bearings for the foot. If you've got a bunch of parts kicking around this may not be an issue. That may also become an issue with the Tohatsu as that motor is becoming obsolete due to 2 stroke restrictions in this country but everything should be available through Bass.

Reliability of the old Mercs is an issue too. At the Oroville Divisionals the DSR class didn't run as everyone but me dropped out before the start. I think there were six boats but one was a Tohatsu. Also at the Top O' the attrition rate for DSR was very high including myself (broken drive shaft) with mostly Mercs in the field. I have seen the Tohatsu's run and they are very fast. I would go with the new motor, which is what I am doing, with a Yamato in CSR. Merc guys don't pile on because I love my old Mercs but in SO I think their time has pretty much passed at least in D stock. Mod is a different story. My 2 cents.
kk

[nbass]

EPA problems resolved

We have EPA approval to import for the next two years. Last year EPA put us in a box because they only gave us a one-year approval. That made it impossible to fulfill orders after about Mid August since our importer did not have the assurance that engines would pass customs should they come in after the first of the year. After discussing this with EPA, they are giving us a two year authority (2008 through 2009) which will be renewed mid 2009 for the 2010 and 2011 years.

Like most specialty racing equipment, we do not have engines on the shelf awaiting a buyer. It takes six or more months to get your engine once you make a deposit. We do not have the finances nor do we want to take the risk of having multiple engines on the shelf awaiting a purchase that may never come. We do order several powerheads at a time so occasionally we have an extra available. Call the Sid at the shop 360-373-3839 to get the latest on price and availability. To order requires a $2,000 deposit and you must sign an EPA compliance/waver and provide a copy of your racing card before delivery. We do have a procedure for compliance with Environment Canada, which I will re-validate.

I hope this answers some of your questions. You can email me for more specificas if you wish.

Neil Bass

[nbass]

Tohatsu Parts

Parts for the Tohatsu M50D2, which we use, are available through your local Tohatsu & Nissan dealer. The Tohatsu M50D2 engine is a big seller throughout most of the world. The current fuel injected Tohatsu sold in the USA has most of the same internal parts as the M50D2. We expect this powerhead to be available for a number of years.

To work on? They seem pretty simple to me. Everything is accessible and there are not a bunch of specialty powerhead parts to find.

Neil Bass

[propnuts]

Epa

Just for the record, purchasing a Yamato, and I imagine any other new 2 stroke engine in the future requires the same EPA waiver signing. This is not special to the Tohatsu.

[bh/]

nbra

We have a Tohatsu on order. should be here by the end of Jan. At the NBRA Short course Nats there were four there. All ran well. In fact one won. Looks like there willl be 5 or 6 running at NBRA races this year.
Art K

Art; -does the NBRA allow the Tohatsu to run on equal footing with the Mercs? ie; same height and weight.
What height and weight do the Ds run at in the NBRA?

[raceright]

Just for the record, purchasing a Yamato, and I imagine any other new 2 stroke engine in the future requires the same EPA waiver signing. This is not special to the Tohatsu.

not mine

Pat

[Fast Jack]

Merc vs Tohatsu

2007 was my first season in DSH, Running a 44 Merc on an Oconnor boat - both owned by Robert Harrity. The season end points tell the story.Next season the Merc will run in Fl and then we should have the Tohatsu and new Oconnor boat for the Nationals. I have been a Merc fan since the 60's,and have worked for Mers dealers as a certified wrench for years. I think the Tohatsu is the future. The engines are easy to work on and the ignition system is a better design ( in my mind) than the old switchbox set up. I look forward to the Tohatsu . I think the performance will improve as the boats evolve for the Tohatsu set up. Shawn

[14-H]

EPA Approval

not mine

Pat

Pat: this is not correct. Bass Machines is following the law. ALL internal combustion engines are required to meet EPA Emissions limits unless they are produced for competition in which case EPA approval is required.

[aojesus]

Epa

Pat: this is not correct. Bass Machines is following the law. ALL internal combustion engines are required to meet EPA Emissions limits unless they are produced for competition in which case EPA approval is required.

This is only for NEW purchases, correct?