Stock Chairman's Long Term Plan

[mercguy]

Daren, You are right, the Tohatsu project has been mishandled from the beginning. That being said, it is here now and should be supported by the SORC. The parity issues can only be corrected if the committee has facts about the performance of that motor against the 44XS. Last year the only facts we had were the results of the Dyno report. By the way, the reason we had to run it on a dyno was because many very well respected motorheads said that, based on their interpretation of the specs, that powerhead would produce much more horsepower than the Merc and may not be compatible. Based on the Dyno report, the power curve is signicantly different than the 44XS. Armed with that information, the decision was made to enforce these few restrictions UNTIL there was sufficient evidence a change was needed. In short, we need test data. Do we have sufficient testing data to make the needed changes? I'm confident the parity committee will do everything it can to make these motors as compatible as possible. John Runne 2-Z

thanks John, I appreciate your input. Now, was the Tohatsu dyno figures compared to a GOOD 44XS or a weak one? How about comparing the Tohatsu figures against Palmquist's GOOD 44XS?

[mercguy]

good info.....

First, the SORC has indicated on several occasions that it supports the efforts of the Hot Rod factory. I hope the history of the last 10 years in handling the introduction of new engines into the Stock Category will not discourage the new owners of this engine to continue to believe that the engine will have a home in SO.

Second, I have never heard of any proposal for a Hot Rod C engine. If one exists, I am not privy to it.

Third, I do not believe that the Tohatsu engine has been mishandled. Some may believe that there are too many restrictions on the engine at this time. I tend to agree. Others believe that the overly cautious approach was warranted due to the dyno information received by the SORC. I tend to agree with that too. I will say this, however, about the D Stock classes: we now have two sources for engines in this class and the numbers seem to indicate a small rebound from the class losses over the past few years. We have new equipment in these classes and we have put protections in place to make sure that our current members' equipment has not been obsoleted.

To me, that is a success. Some of the people who own either the older or new equipment may not like some of the decisions that have been made. Overall, however, I think the objective of putting new equipment into SO while also protecting current members has been met. That is not to say that more work is not need. It is. Ed.

this is the kind of feedback I appreciate Ed! (well, besides the point of you saying the Tohatsu was NOT mishandled, cause it was!).

[14-H]

*** How about comparing the Tohatsu figures against Palmquist's GOOD 44XS?

Palmquist's stuff is not that fast. It is mediocre. It is the driver that is fast. Ed.

[14-H]

***cause it was!).

Darren: How was it mishandled? Don't give me an answer about restrictions about which you disagree. That is not mishandling. Ed.

[mercguy]

2 reasons off hand......

Darren: How was it mishandled? Don't give me an answer about restrictions about which you disagree. That is not mishandling. Ed.

1) basing the hp vs. torque results against Wheeler's motor (which "could" have been weak at the time).

2) implementing restrictions on the motor BEFORE you have seen it run on the race course

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

got no bidness here!!!

Hey, guys this parity thing was invented when merc died when merc went away and parts weren't' around think about it when have we.. i mean You since i don't race not had to restrict something???. Some classes have had 2 sets of rules off and on as 1&2 c, d even 36 was a comprimise.

I don't think we'll have more than 30 tasus soon, so whats the % of saturation compared to the venerable old one?

My point is in NBRA , unrestricted as to height, props and so forth it ain't no 40" 44yr old mk 55. This thru first person observation. Say what?
RichardKCMo

[mercguy]

post the results Ed or Mark or Dave..........

so, let's let the public view the testing results provided by Troy Holmberg!!! We know you have them, so share to the rest of the racing public!! You have stated you wanted something in writting and you have it, so post it!

here is the permission:

"I Troy Holmberg give permission to post my test results on the Tohatsu"

[99R]

Feel free to post any info. Ed or Mark.

[mike ross]

I think all the motors Mark Wheeler have are better than average. The Tahatsu that was tested had to be tweeked a little just to make it run clean and clear. The Mercury I am sure had all the latest and greatest things done and weather it was his very best only he could tell you that. My thoughts here is we need the factory to be as pro active with this motor. We by no way are going to trash any equipment given for test purposes. The idea is to have the motor heads that John talked about get a chance to help develope a fair playing field. The original deal when we started the approval process was for the factory to provide a motor to dyno test. I know the importing of the engine caused this delay. I have heard thru the grapevine that you were running the Tahatsu higher when it was raced last year anyway. Lets all work as a team to make this transition work. This pairity issue is new to all of us so all the imput is important so we can move forward in a positive way. Whats been done till now is over the dam and down the river. Have there been any other issues besides the motor needing to run higher to make it safer? How about some info on new motor availibility. We have tried to make the Bass brothers part of this process and they always seem to pass on being part of the commitee. The factory has got to be a part in making this thing sucsessful. Darren get you commisioner to send me all the proposals you are thinking of so they can be reviewed by both Ed and the D parity commitee. They will be put on the agenda that will be posted before we go to LA. I know one is the height issue which I think everyone is in favor of. Mike

[17W]

Good One....

thanks John, I appreciate your input. Now, was the Tohatsu dyno figures compared to a GOOD 44XS or a weak one? How about comparing the Tohatsu figures against Palmquist's GOOD 44XS?

Darren-

He has @ least 4 & they all have won a National Title! You guys do your homework w/the Tohatsu & we will see how DSH shakes out @ the Nationals!

[Dave M]

West Coast Sidewinder

You guys out west who have been running the Tahatsu please bring all the data you have collected so far to LA. We know from all the posts that you would like the height raised for better handling. One of the big issues I see is the east coast has yet to see a motor on a boat being raced. The majority of the DSH and DSR are in the East. Ed stepped up 2 yrs ago and got the Tahatsu approved for you guys. Believe me Ed has taken the heat for 2 yrs now for doing that. We owe all the D class members this info. If I was on the pairity commitee I would have every stock outboard apba member recieve this testing info so they all could see it. It would also be nice if the Bass factory could provide a engine to be tested by someone in the East. The Sidewinder has been at several races so far, Been at the national meeting for all to see, Has been tested by a few at races for all to see. And has been raced competitivly against the current B class racers. All this and it isn't even apprved to race yet. This is what the D claas memebers thought should have been done before we approved it. This new D needs to be compared together with a Mercury in front of someone in the parity commitee so we can make sure it fits the bill. Mark Wheeler is a great wealth of knowledge when it comes to things like this. I am sure he would be more than willing, He did give his Merc 44xs to Mike W, when we finally got a Tahatsu to dyno for comparision. And that motor getting to Mike W was part of the approval process Ed got done and then that end of the deal went a little astray( Motor not sent to Mike in time frame promised) causing us to have to extend a deadline to the last minute and when we finnally approved it the membership looked at it like we jammed it thru. Please have all the info you have together so all SORC members can review it, It might be good to get it to them prior to the LA meeting. Not all SORC commisioners will be in attendance. I am with you we need to support new motors but the process we went through with the Tahatsu was not the way it will be done in the future. Having voting done with not all commisioners being present could end up with different results. Have a meeting with the pairity commitee prior to LA. Can't wait to see some data. Mike

Do you think a Sidewinder Hot Rod will be sent to the West Coast for testing before it is approved ? Just curious... might help the approval process if they send a motor out to be ran by someone out there to see how it does against competition. Then the parity committee can sort it out.

Maybe the SORC should purchase an engine to be sent out there to be tested when they are available. Or are these engines simply approved and ready to race once the factory has them for sale ?

[14-H]

1) basing the hp vs. torque results against Wheeler's motor (which "could" have been weak at the time).

2) implementing restrictions on the motor BEFORE you have seen it run on the race course

1) Which motor should we have used? That was the only one anyone offered and Wheeler advised the SORC it was not his best but very good as he had beaten Palmquist and Sweeney at Big Rapids the fall before with it. Besides, the Tohatsu was box stock with no blue printing (not that anyone would do that when it isn't legal).

2) The answer to this would have been that the motor would never have been approved. There were many members on the SORC who were very upset that Bass Machines would not pay for an engine to be delivered to the Nationals to be tested. This was a compromise to get the engine put into the class.

You can say that it was mishandled. The alternative would have been no Tohatsu in D Stock. Pick your poison, as they say. Ed.

[Dave M]

Will

Sidewinder pay for and ship one to the West Coast for the Stock Nat's out there ?

[propnuts]

Needs to be stated...

Darren, I think you need to back off on Ed and how the Tohatsu was handled. I have heard from many credible sources that without Ed's backing, and at the cost of some political capitol on Ed's part, the Tohatsu would have been DOA with the SORC. Whatever else you can say about Ed, I think his commitment to new, available motors for Stock outboard racing has been steadfast. I applaud his efforts, until it's time to go after the OMC Tony

[T Chance]

I'd like to see someone put a racing version of a stock Bass/Tohatsu on an 1100 Pro Runabout (Don't tell my wife I said that).