Should CSH be a Legal Pro Class?

[csh12M]

Hey Ryan,

Do you think we were chopped in LA, at the Winternationals? or do you think we went in on the inside to hard and got what we deserved? I think both arguements here have a lot of merit. Just curious to what you thought about that situation?

Dean

[Brian10s]

If someone comes barrelling into the first turn on the inside and can't hold their lane, then they are baring away and will be disqualified as such. That doesn't seem to be much of a problem because people that can't turn usually know enough not to put themselves in a position to have to.

Ryan,
While I agree in principle that it should be a call, I have never heard of a baring away call being made between pin 1 & 2. Barring away is almost always called on the exit of corners onto the straightaways. And as for people who can't turn, I also agree in principle but I can name several over the years that have done the exact act as I described to me. It happens, maybe not as much today as crashing in from the outside but it still happens.

Mostly, what happens today is more experienced drivers are on the inside and end up backing off long before it becomes an issue because experience has taught them nothing good can happen from pushing into a bad turn. Or the guy in lane 3 backs out cause he sees himself as the meat in a 4 mil sandwich and ends up drinking gallons of spray, hoping to survive the turn.

My point was, while the Pro overlap rule doesn't solve all the issues at hand, it does solve one that the Stock/ Mod does not. Not saying that the Stock/ Mod rule doesn't solve a bunch of other issues, either. I have always raced under the Stock/ Mod rule, just have seen first hand where there is a loophole in it.

[22W]

Absolutely not... That was completely clean on your part, just wet on mine. I take my chances going in there that I may not get that boat length. Then I have to back off and get a face full as I did. (and then some!) I have gotten grumpy with you in the past, but not lately. You had a boat length and that was that. I would have done the same thing. Do you think if you had two inches on me it would have been safe to go to the pin? Or fair for that matter? I am just defending our current rule as something needed for safety. Remember how many wrecks we used to have in 25 hydro a few years back? We know what has changed and I don't want to have to race with that stuff happening on the course ever again. If the guy in lane 8 has a foot on the next guy and there are five other boats inside of him in a line, the lead guy can create quite a mess with the PRO rule. I for one respect the Stock rule even when racing OSY. I don't want to be the guy to hurt one of my friends or their rig. (A little yellow paint rub might add some character to my boat though! )

[David Weaver]

In the past at the PRO nationals in DePue there were incidents where a boat on the extreme outisde at the start would slam the door on the rest of the field. Then one year a referee declared that this would not be tolerated and the first boat to test him was tossed-out. From that point onwards, the number of similar "moves" decreased dramtically and it has been much less of an issue.

[22W]

Brian, I agree most people wouldn't make the call. I will. I have never been afraid to make a call in the turnboat, because too often people are afraid to call infractions. They don't want to get their friends mad at them. It drives me nuts. Friend or not, we all know the rules and should drive by them. After 18 years of racing, I feel that I coud be called "experienced" by most people's standards. And yes, I do know that the throttle works the other way too.

[csh12M]

Cool Ryan,

I like our rule, I was just curious what you thought about that situation. Brians psot about screaming up to the pin on the inside got me thinking a bit.

Later,
Dean

[bill boyes]

Lets review how OSY came about. I recall that the class was named novice and used a 20ssh or a CSH boat, a 2 blade propeller and the Yamato 80 motor. Also it had a claiming rule. When the Y302 came out the SORC was concerned that it would blow the socks off the 102's and placed the motor on a year's probation. Then the following year the SORC added another year probation. Then the 3rd year the SORC put the motor into the C2 class. The 102's could also run in the C2 class. The the following year at the Annual Meeting in San Diego the SORC wanted to extend the C2 class and exclude the 302 from the "C" Class permanently. With that I became very upset and voiced my opinion. The idea was dropped and the 302 was accepted into the C class. Now during the time that the 302 was on probation in the Stock ranks the Pro Commission accepted the motor for use in the Pro Novice Class. A few years later the 2 blade prop rule was deleted. Then the Pro Commisission renamed the class from Pro Novice to OSY.That is how it came to where it is today. A CSH with no min wt and a 14 year old min age. How do I know all this because we had the first 302's on the West Coast. I have been to many Pro Races and frankly their overlap rule works for them except in the OSY Class. Why? well I think because most OSY drivers also drive Stocks and they do not understand the Pro Rule. Yes it is cockpit to cockpit but read the rule further and it says the overtaken boat must be left a safe lane. That rule is not being enforced as it is very difficult to call. When I referee a race I watch for it and call it when I see it.

[Kristi Ellison]

If I recall correctly....this is the class I started out in all those years ago...Novice Formula 350 was a true novice class. It had a starting age of 14, you could run it for no more than 4 years and the driver had to be a Novice and could not run any other class.

[mercguy]

just run 20SSH.........

That is exactly how I lost my boat, a 14 year old kid fresh out of K-Pro causing a wreck by making a mistake on the course!

I run OSY cause it sucks having to put 45lbs of lead in, and a C sized boat doesn't (always) work well in 20ssH. Unfortunatly the 25ssH class died out on the West coast and we've never had a B class since I've been racing.

OSY should have the same minimum age as CSH and a minimum weight of 400lbs OR comply exactly with UIM rules.

Here's my rule proposal for the Pro category;

All classes that run gas and oil will adopt the Stock overlap rule.

K-Pro will have the same rules and requirements as JR and JH (or make it the same as the AXS classes)

OSY400 will comply fully with the UIM rules and requirements.

Mike Bartlett

I can hook you up with a VERY GOOD Yamato 80 ( or 2!) and your boat will work just fine in 20SSH!

[dlmurray]

Thanks about the photo--Jean Tennell took it--Portsmouth, OH USTS race

And it's Diane, not Dan.

Thanks.

[bill boyes]

If I recall correctly....this is the class I started out in all those years ago...Novice Formula 350 was a true novice class. It had a starting age of 14, you could run it for no more than 4 years and the driver had to be a Novice and could not run any other class.

Yes Kristi you are correct. So how did we get to this point? I well not beat up the Pro Category because all Categories do this. They change rules to fit the situation and leave out the basics of why the class started in the first place. Very self serving. So in effect we had a good idea of a Novice Formula 350 class over the years gone REALLY WRONG. It has become an OSY class but not really because UIM has a weight in OSY.

[14-H]

This is NOT the overlap Thread

Just a reminder to stay on topic. I realize that this discussion necessarily involves the overlap rule as a side issue, but if you want to debate the merits of the overlap rule, start another thread. But not in my forum 'cause it ain't goin' on the SO agenda.

[mercguy]

uh......why?????

Just a reminder to stay on topic. I realize that this discussion necessarily involves the overlap rule as a side issue, but if you want to debate the merits of the overlap rule, start another thread. But not in my forum 'cause it ain't goin' on the SO agenda.

"'cause it ain't goin' on the SO agenda."

one of the biggest concerns/debates is not going to be addressed????? ........figures.......... I guess "numbers, etc" are more important.......

[14-H]

Overlap thread

Darren: you start the thread and I'll discuss it there.

So why do most clubs now run BOTH OSY-400 and CSH? I haven't heard this explanation yet. Ed.

[mercguy]

Darren: you start the thread and I'll discuss it there.

OK...........(and it is Daren with 1 "R")

So why do most clubs now run BOTH OSY-400 and CSH? I haven't heard this explanation yet. Ed.

easy.............entry fees!