SO Hull, Safety and Racing Rules

[42R Dad]

SO Hull, Safety and Racing Rules

First off, myself or J. Michael did not ask for these proposed rule changes to be posted.
Thank you Ken for your input and support. Safety is most important!
Just a reminder that J Stock Drivers can run OSY 400, 125cc at the age of 14 and K PRO at the age of 11 with totally different Overlap rules. Is this what we want to subject the kids to? Is this the best we can do?

Jeff Kelly

[39R]

You asked for and received my support Jeff; be careful what you wish for…

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Tongue in other Cheek!!!

Nick, Andrew,

I'm learning to like the roll-up myself.

Tampering with the rules seems to get people a little huffy. Why not mandate a minimum of one right turn for each race course. It's been a while since I have rolled up a hydro.

Craig

I think that's the 2nd best idea, right after making boats bigger, oh well.
Richard fan man

[Joe J]

Ed:

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. The pro rule is quite simple, "Don't put yourself in a place you don't belong."

Ken:

I remember your example quite well, as I was the inspector that had to toss J. Michael for accomplishing the best save most of us will ever see. But if the proposal were to pass, what would stop a driver from changing the setup between heats?

Joe

It might be easier to determine for the patrol boat judge but it is unsafe. Ed.

[22W]

Ok Joe, so we should all let you A holes run over everyone inside of you??? Hell no!!! I will not stand for that at all! I guess maybe that is a crutch for those of you who cannot drive very well. If you have a quarter mile an hour and no respect for your fellow drivers, then I guess you win races and hurt your friends. That sounds like lots of fun to me! Get a clue! We race for fun and friendly competition. Not to see who can outspend each other for the privilege of driving over everyone at the first turn.

[42R Dad]

SO Hull, Safety and Racing Rules

Joe, nothing is stopping anyone from changing the set ups between heats now. If no inspection is done, how can they be illegal? What stops someone from not running lead the first heat when inspection is done the second for the most part? I thought everyone is innocent until proven guilty?

Also "Don't put your self in a place you don't belong" would that be on the inside of any boat? Is this what you would tell a J Driver transitioning into OSY? Remember? No Brakes!

Ed:

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. The pro rule is quite simple, "Don't put yourself in a place you don't belong."

Ken:

I remember your example quite well, as I was the inspector that had to toss J. Michael for accomplishing the best save most of us will ever see. But if the proposal were to pass, what would stop a driver from changing the setup between heats?

Joe

[DougMc]

Let us please get back to Stock Outboard Hull, Safety and Racing Rules. The Pro Commissioners can start their own thread, but please don't hijack the Stock thread. Your beef seems to lie with the Pro Division, not the Stock Division. Your views rule the day in Stock, and you have made the point that the Pro Commissioners could learn a lot from Stock.

[Joe J]

I really don't think we need to stoop to calling people "A holes". Since we have never met, you have no idea who I am or my driving ability, do you?

Joe

Ok Joe, so we should all let you A holes run over everyone inside of you??? .

[les]

How did this Happen

Let's hear those suggestions in this thread. Ed.

We went from this to calling each other names pretty quick!
Back on topic...
I would like like to see the sponson tips and other leading edges of our boats reviewed for safety, Even if it means reworking my boat.
If You need to see some research on the topic, Look up 'Armor Piercing Ammo' or ask your local firearms guru what shape you need to punch holes in kevlar.
Larry Spencer

[39R]

OK everybody, let’s all take a deep breath and relax a little. After all, this is a discussion about proposed changes on a discussion forum. Those who want to resort to inflammatory comments to make their point, please switch over to the Up Yours forum.

I have already agreed that the PRO overlap rule is inappropriate for this thread and that it is an issue for the PRO Commission to resolve. You have my apologies for the so called hijacking.

I would like to discuss the two issues proposed by the Kelly’s that are appropriate here:

DQ post inspection for illegal setup and drivers in the water.

Jeff stole my thunder when he states that there is nothing preventing someone form running one set up in the 1st heat and another in the 2nd with the rule as it is applied today, that is nothing but their conscious and/or sense of fair play if they have one and I choose to believe that most in fact do.

We have demonstrated two issues (one actual and one potential) where such a DQ is unfairly applied and it has been suggested that we stop assuming at inspection and only penalize for proven violations. Such would only positively affect those who are not guilty and have no effect on those who are cheating today by running a known illegal setup in the first heat and a legal one in the second to pass inspection. To combat the potential for cheating I would further propose that inspectors choose certain classes at random to do a quick inspection immediately after the first heat to combat this situation. This would add some work to the inspection process, but far less than a full inspection after every heat.

The second issue that seems to have gone completely ignored is the driver in the water automatic stoppage. I have multiple personal experiences with this situation having campaigned a CSR that seemed to have it in for me. My region 10 friends can attest that during the last two seasons I raced this boat that I spent more time watching the action while floating along side of it than I did from the cockpit.

The last two seasons at Capital lake have also fueled this debate when for the sake of expediency of the heat and schedule that we continued to run heats of racing when drivers where actually floating in the second turn and being split by the racers still competing because the referee refused when asked to stop the heat. This practice is inherently dangerous for obvious reasons and if we cannot count on the race committee to stop the heat, then to protect ourselves we need the rule changed.

I look forward to calm debate.

[DougMc]

The second issue that seems to have gone completely ignored is the driver in the water automatic stoppage.
The last two seasons at Capital lake have also fueled this debate when for the sake of expediency of the heat and schedule that we continued to run heats of racing when drivers where actually floating in the second turn and being split by the racers still competing because the referee refused when asked to stop the heat. This practice is inherently dangerous for obvious reasons and if we cannot count on the race committee to stop the heat, then to protect ourselves we need the rule changed.

I like your idea of automatic stoppage. There are two times in the past three season where I had to back off to safely avoid a flipped boat or driver in the water. Both times I was passed and beaten by the boat behind me. I have never been in the running for high points, etc., so in the grander scheme of my racing it really doesn't matter that I was passed while safely avoiding downed boats; however, had I been in the high points or championships running I can only hope I would have made the same decision.

[DougMc]

Insurance Company K&K

While this post may be looking suggestions for changes to be made, I would like to state a change that should not be made - K&K Insurance Company. I delt with them after I broke my leg at Lakeland in 2005. They were very professional, took good care of me and worked well with my personal insurance company. K&K was a first class company when dealing with me.

[22W]

Ok everyone, I jumped the gun with the A hole comment and for that I am sorry. Joe, the comment was not directed at you in particular as you are correct (I think) that we have not met. After a long day of work and a few beers, my blood was flowing a bit. My apologies to anyone whom I may have offended with my choice of wording. I am just rather sick of the comments such as "Don't put yourself in a place you don't belong." We are here talking about SO safety issues and somehow I don't believe that a philosophy like that is very conducive to the safety of our sport.

[14-H]

A hole comment

In Ryan's defense, he has been taking a lot of pain medication since that nasty spill at Grass Lake. It's not his fault. Ask Rush Limbaugh. Eddie.

[csh2z]

Maybe the overlap rule should just be deleted because the only accurate way to determine right or wrong is to view from a hot air balloon over the turn(We've got no shortage of hot air!). All other perspectives are subject to interpretation and therefore cannot be fairly and consistantly enforced.
John 2-Z