SO Hull, Safety and Racing Rules

[Big Don]

I guarantee it would eliminate the problem of people chopping each at the 500 foot bouy trying to get the inside...

Donny

[Cameraboy]

Maybe the overlap rule should just be deleted because the only accurate way to determine right or wrong is to view from a hot air balloon over the turn(We've got no shortage of hot air!). All other perspectives are subject to interpretation and therefore cannot be fairly and consistantly enforced.
John 2-Z

Great point, John. Add to that the fact that the turn judge has to return to the beach and may have to listen to the offending driver (directly or indirectly) rant and rave about the call. That's a real disincentive to make any calls.

Stopping heats when a driver goes in the water is a good idea - if the drivers are watching flags. Of course, it's hard to see the black flag against a dark background. Then again, we tried waving a red with the black this season, and it didn't seem to make a difference. Seems to take a well-aimed flare shell for some folks to stop. The rule book says that a stopped driver can't be used as a turn pin - that's open to interpretation. If I go inside of a driver in the the water, since I'm not using him/her as a turn pin, can I drive really close to them? If I go on the outside, am I using them as a turn pin even if I am 8 lanes away?

[kws]

here is a what if ...
what if we used floating turn judges stands like were used at wakefield
then used sections of tv tower to get up 30 or 40 feet and used camaras and a laptop to record the corners?. wireless outdoor camaras

[Brian10s]

Proposal #2

What about the rule that outlaws sharp pickle forks and sharp pointy runabouts?

Sorry Ed, was out all weekend. And to think I was worried that you would be bored without my proposals to discuss
You ask and I shall deliver - (of course this proposal has been made every year for the last 3 and has yet to make it to a vote by our Commission - maybe the 4th time is the charm). And for those that something like this can not happen - it did. Unlikely, yes but if it happened once, it is only a matter of time before it happens again.

PROPOSAL TO THE MOD, STOCK, PRO AND Junior COMMISSIONS
OR AS A GENERAL SAFETY RULE

FOR CONSIDERATION IN REGARDS TO SHARP POINTS ON THE FRONT OF RACING BOATS

Proposal: To mandate that by January 2009 all Hydroplanes must have either at least a 4-inch long removable/collapsible sponson tip/nose with a perpendicular bulkhead (UIM rule 509.02 pgs 160 – 162 of 06 UIM rulebook) or 1 inch diameter sponson tip/nose and all runabouts built after 12/31/08 must have a flat or rounded nose (ie no point).

Reason: To prevent the further injury due to sharp, hard, non-collapsible points from hitting other competitors.

Explanation: As boats evolved over the past 10 years, it seems that the pickle fork has becoming increasingly sharper with each generation. Regardless of construction materials, these sharp pickle forks are projectiles as we travel across the water. I was witness to a new wood constructed hydro’s pickles go through the side of a hydro with 14 mil sides and carbon fiber & fiberglass sandwiched in between the layers of marine grade plywood.

It is my belief that the sharp pickle fork has no performance advantage and is just for looks, and these looks magnify the risk. This also holds true for runabouts, which also have no reason for coming to a point. However, since runabouts must meet minimum lengths, there is not easy retrofit for.

This proposal would be for all new construction as well as retrofitting all current boats. All I am looking for is a tip the size of a pop bottle lid. That is approx one inch and would greatly reduce the amount of puncture ratio into our boats.

Thank you for your consideration,
Brian Williams
APBA# 8135
Brian10s@hotmail.com

[mercguy]

turn judges...

"Great point, John. Add to that the fact that the turn judge has to return to the beach and may have to listen to the offending driver (directly or indirectly) rant and rave about the call. That's a real disincentive to make any calls."


First off, the turn judges need to be experienced enough to be able to make the call (no 1st year members making these calls). Second, would you rather the driver that got injured by being chopped off, rant at you? Yes, there are some instances when chopping happanes by accident (boat hops or skips, etc), but there are times when I KNOW that if I am in lane 1 in OSY (for example only) and a boat length or less behind the boat in lane 2, I know I can expect to get chopped off and will have to either avoid hitting the buoy or change my path of direction drastically and possibly into another boats path, or back off the throttle and risk getting rear-ended.......pick your poison! The part of the rule that states the overtaking driver must leave the overtaken boat a lane (again, the turn buoy is NOT a lane!) and not alter his course MUST be enforced.

[Brian10s]

Proposal #3

Since you guys were on the subject of Turn Boat judges.

PROPOSAL TO STOCK & MOD COMMISSIONS
COPY TO THE Junior COMMISSION FOR DISCUSSION

FOR CONSIDERATION TO REQUIRE A DRIVER PASS A TEST ON BASIC RACING RULES EVERY YEAR

Proposal: To mandate that all driver must pass a standard test of general racing rules in order to receive their racing license.

Reason: To increase the knowledge of racing rules for all drivers, since drivers are our turn boat judges and act as the Referee’s eyes on the racecourse.

Explanation: The fact that we our drivers act as judges on the course and are at sometimes the Referee’s only witness to infractions, I believe there is a need to increase the general knowledge of our entire pool of drivers by requiring the passing of a written test each year. We currently have a yearly test for all Inspectors, Scorers, Junior drivers and Referee’s, but the main source of enforcing our rules (drivers in our turn boats), we assume that they have read the rulebook and are familiar enough with our rules to make calls on infractions. I believe this is a hole in our officiating process and one that could be closed very easily. This could be done in several ways; an on-line exam through the APBA website (all tests could then by put online reducing the time spent by other officials in grading), a written exam could be included in the membership renewal, and as the last line of defense, a written exam to be graded at the race site for those drivers who join at the races.
Having a standard test based on general knowledge needed to be a turn judge would only benefit the overall safety of our racing program. This would give us a forum to ensure a base knowledge of the rulebook for all drivers, as well as have informed drivers as our turn judges.

Thank you for your consideration,
Brian Williams
APBA # 8135

[mercguy]

Since you guys were on the subject of Turn Boat judges.

PROPOSAL TO STOCK & MOD COMMISSIONS
COPY TO THE Junior COMMISSION FOR DISCUSSION

FOR CONSIDERATION TO REQUIRE A DRIVER PASS A TEST ON BASIC RACING RULES EVERY YEAR

Proposal: To mandate that all driver must pass a standard test of general racing rules in order to receive their racing license.

Reason: To increase the knowledge of racing rules for all drivers, since drivers are our turn boat judges and act as the Referee’s eyes on the racecourse.

Explanation: The fact that we our drivers act as judges on the course and are at sometimes the Referee’s only witness to infractions, I believe there is a need to increase the general knowledge of our entire pool of drivers by requiring the passing of a written test each year. We currently have a yearly test for all Inspectors, Scorers, Junior drivers and Referee’s, but the main source of enforcing our rules (drivers in our turn boats), we assume that they have read the rulebook and are familiar enough with our rules to make calls on infractions. I believe this is a hole in our officiating process and one that could be closed very easily. This could be done in several ways; an on-line exam through the APBA website (all tests could then by put online reducing the time spent by other officials in grading), a written exam could be included in the membership renewal, and as the last line of defense, a written exam to be graded at the race site for those drivers who join at the races.
Having a standard test based on general knowledge needed to be a turn judge would only benefit the overall safety of our racing program. This would give us a forum to ensure a base knowledge of the rulebook for all drivers, as well as have informed drivers as our turn judges.

Thank you for your consideration,
Brian Williams
APBA # 8135

EXCELLANT idea Brian!!! I know though it is VERY TOUGH usually rounding up enough people to fill the turn judge, etc duties MOST of the time, but it must be done with knowledgeable people also. There needs to be an incentive those those people also, such as maybe a free entry (or discounted) or something along that idea. I know alot of drivers are racing in pretty much each heat, so cannot volunteer for the needed duties, thus reducing the volunteer list greatly, so incentives need to be thought of...........

[Lights]

Test

Since you guys were on the subject of Turn Boat judges.

PROPOSAL TO STOCK & MOD COMMISSIONS
COPY TO THE Junior COMMISSION FOR DISCUSSION

FOR CONSIDERATION TO REQUIRE A DRIVER PASS A TEST ON BASIC RACING RULES EVERY YEAR

Proposal: To mandate that all driver must pass a standard test of general racing rules in order to receive their racing license.

Reason: To increase the knowledge of racing rules for all drivers, since drivers are our turn boat judges and act as the Referee’s eyes on the racecourse.

Explanation: The fact that we our drivers act as judges on the course and are at sometimes the Referee’s only witness to infractions, I believe there is a need to increase the general knowledge of our entire pool of drivers by requiring the passing of a written test each year. We currently have a yearly test for all Inspectors, Scorers, Junior drivers and Referee’s, but the main source of enforcing our rules (drivers in our turn boats), we assume that they have read the rulebook and are familiar enough with our rules to make calls on infractions. I believe this is a hole in our officiating process and one that could be closed very easily. This could be done in several ways; an on-line exam through the APBA website (all tests could then by put online reducing the time spent by other officials in grading), a written exam could be included in the membership renewal, and as the last line of defense, a written exam to be graded at the race site for those drivers who join at the races.
Having a standard test based on general knowledge needed to be a turn judge would only benefit the overall safety of our racing program. This would give us a forum to ensure a base knowledge of the rulebook for all drivers, as well as have informed drivers as our turn judges.

Thank you for your consideration,
Brian Williams
APBA # 8135

I like the proposal Brian.

Mark

[Cameraboy]

[QUOTE=mercguy First off, the turn judges need to be experienced enough to be able to make the call (no 1st year members making these calls). Second, would you rather the driver that got injured by being chopped off, rant at you? Yes, there are some instances when chopping happanes by accident (boat hops or skips, etc), but there are times when I KNOW that if I am in lane 1 in OSY (for example only) and a boat length or less behind the boat in lane 2, I know I can expect to get chopped off and will have to either avoid hitting the buoy or change my path of direction drastically and possibly into another boats path, or back off the throttle and risk getting rear-ended.......pick your poison! The part of the rule that states the overtaking driver must leave the overtaken boat a lane (again, the turn buoy is NOT a lane!) and not alter his course MUST be enforced.[/QUOTE]

Hey Daren, I'm not saying the opposite doesn't happen - remember the near-WFE situation we had at Olympia after a "no-call"? I know my driver has been called out twice on the beach after making calls in the turn boat (both of them backed by the ref and other drivers in the heat). His response is he'll make the call again. There are other folks who respond by not making the call or staying on the beach.

I like Brian's proposal. We all need to know the rule book better. My wife's been a Chief Scorer for a year or so and has already corrected me a few times. They have to take a test.

[mercguy]

Hey Daren, I'm not saying the opposite doesn't happen - remember the near-WFE situation we had at Olympia after a "no-call"? I know my driver has been called out twice on the beach after making calls in the turn boat (both of them backed by the ref and other drivers in the heat). His response is he'll make the call again. There are other folks who respond by not making the call or staying on the beach.

I like Brian's proposal. We all need to know the rule book better. My wife's been a Chief Scorer for a year or so and has already corrected me a few times. They have to take a test.

"His response is he'll make the call again.".............AND THUS HE SHOULD!!! I would do the same thing Mike. If he is called out on the beach by a driver, then that driver should be "beached" also. Some times there are heated debates on the beach, that are not appropriate, especially with spectators are on-looking. I think we have all did this (including me) and it needs to be stopped NOW, that is why we have driver's reps, etc. Let's nip this thing in the butt NOW!

[seanp3]

[QUOTE=mercguy First off, the turn judges need to be experienced enough to be able to make the call [/QUOTE]

I'm all for that. I'll tell I was asked to be turn judge a few times this year and being my first year was very uncomfortable. Knowledge is a must - I agree. But, as Daren points out experience and knowledge are two different things. Fortunately, when I was in the turn judge boat I didn't have to make any calls

[drbyrne55]

Making the call?

How about some incentives for the "experienced" for volunteering to be "turn judges". Maybe free entry fees for the day or something?

My point....

for example at the Olympia race when my brother flipped in the latter part of turn 2.......... other drivers could not see him until they were well into turn 2 at 60 plus mph and were making last second attempts to avoid hitting him..... luckily drivers were spread somewhat and Kyle's driving skills allowed him make it inside Sean and John was able to make it to the outside. I recall people on the beach asking why the heat wasn't shut down? There was clear danger....... this happen in lap 1 and the race continued 2 more laps to to the finish.

back to my point ... can the turn judge make that call if the start finish judge doesn't have clear vision or wasn't making the call? As rookie my brother and I (rookie next year) don't know the answer so maybe we aren't the best turn judges when it comes to making calls, utimately safety.

So who is qualified to be a turn judge? I don't want my inexperience to end up being a safety issue.... and I'm not sure I'm ready to recognize lane violations and such....

Thanks,
Dan

[26V]

Inexperianced turn judges can and do lower the safty of our races ( count me in this catagory) most of us new drivers don't know what to look for so we don't know how to spot an infraction. You cant call what you cant or dont see. Overhead vidio would be the surest way to spot a driving infraction. Not sure how to accommplish that but the concept is appealing.


Also I would like to add that EMT personel IN THE RESCUE BOAT would go a long way to making a safer race weekend. A couple of races this year we had some hairy wrecks. In one an ASXC driver was "hungup on the prop"
So proper "tools" for cutting kevlar, knowing how to use the backboard, neck brace, PRACTICE loading a big driver onto the backboard/neckbrace and into the rescue boat.
I Volunteer for rescue practice!
Any one in the rescue boat should have some experiance with the safty equitment on it and some practice in loading a driver. If there are three people on the boat, then 2 could have the experiance and one could be learning.

Gene Schertz

[greybeard]

heat stoppage

Its in da book...

Saftey rule 6 - Accidents/Flips
3. If the driver of a non reenforced cockpit boat enters the water the heat shall be stopped unless the driver is clearly out of danger.

4. Turn Judges, Race Committee, Referee.... .... have the authority to stop a heat.

[DougMc]

Helmet Restraints

Unless I missed it, no one has brought up helmet restraints.

Are helmet restraints good or bad? Would it break my neck or save my neck? Should they be recommended or required? Does the helmet get damaged when putting the rivots into the helmet?

What about neck colars?

What about flack protection in jackets?