Stock Outboard Questionaire

[Ron Hill]

Pretty ****ing Simple Why It Is An Issue With Me

nd the Merc's "KICKED" back to J???

[Ron Hill]

Pretty ****ing Simple Why It Is An Issue With Me

I've put 12 "A" Hydros on the water in the last two years, I own 6 OMC's, and one Formula A. I've owned or had my hands on 4 Mercs. I go to Minden and the Siderwinder pulls a four boat length lead in and 800 foot run to the first turn.

I issue is the SIDEWINDER is NOT A STOCK MOTOR. I can still buy a 15 OMC on E-Bay for $700 dollars and a gearcase for $1,200 and I can have a motor for a lot less than $5,000.

How many Sidewinders are ready to ship for the Winter Nationals? Can we get 1?? 3? What's the ISSUE???

I have three short block for loan to anyone in Region 12 who races "A", all built fresh by Brinkman.

I've supported these new racers, with payment plans, loans and out right gifts. Why should they be kicked to J or Classic Stock?

Anyone consider letting the A Class vote on THEIR rules?

[reed28n]

New vs Used vs old

One of the things that makes this type of racing work is that it is cost effective. If you think this racing is expensive make a few calls. Try other leasure racing sports. SCCA, way more money and time, Kart racing, way more money and time, heck, I have three girls that all Ski race, have you priced racing skis and ski equipment lately. We have a very cost effective form of racing, and because for the most part none of us have dreams of us or our kids signing million dollar contracts to race boats, we are still pretty civil to each other at the racesite. I agree that there is a time to retire engines, but why is it we never talk about retiring old boat designs? Because it takes care of itself. When a design is no longer competitive people stop using it. If an engine is still competitive (Regionally) why not race it. I'm not saying that it is favored over other designs, but why legislate a viable engine out.

As for new engines, I see that same thing. Don't favor one with rules, make the driver earn it on the race course. I like what I saw in an earlier post regarding the A class.

To para phrase- When looking at times the Merc with AXH weight runs similar times to the A OMC 15. The Sidewinder faster. It seems to me for ASH that if you let the Merc run at the AXH weight, the OMC at current A weight and work out a weight for the Sidewinder, you would have three eligible motors and the possibility of increased entries (AKA larger classes and more club revenue). Also, this reinforces the development process for Juniors to continue racing without needing to buy all new equipment as they get older.

And to add to that...why again would we outlaw the OMC 15? No it is not new, but they are plentiful and it's an economical step for many racers (and parents of racers) to get started without having to take out a home mortgage. Not every racer is going to go to the Nationals. Sometimes a good economical way to race local and have fun is all that is needed.

As for classes, if a Region has sufficient numbers in a class, even if Nationally the numbers are not there, make it a Regional class. Look at the OPC GT classes they run in MN as "local Classes." They do very well and it works for them. If APBA decided to do away with those classes because they were not National classes we would loose more APBA and club members and several good race events each year. I am a fan of fewer classes, but lets first look to see if a class is viable or not viable as a National Class. I also feel that we should allow certain classes to be able to "step-up." Back in the "old days" of the "80's" (70's also but I was not around then), OPC would allow certain class boats to "step up" to help field size and make sure boats did not sit on the beach. Could this be an option for some classes and equipment, maybe.



That's all I have for now. I'm interested in hearing any of your thoughts.

Scott Deware

You make a couple of excellent points about classes. APBA is a National organization. We should focus on rules to promote the best things about our sport.

Availability of new motors that are not held back by parity will attract new drivers or encourage exisiting drivers to invest in new equipment. Older motors will be a value to new drivers trying to get started that don't have to be out front. Without new motors and people moving up or by age or weight we do not have an inventory of good used equipment. I believe the Merc in J and AX classes will alow drivers to move up. This evolution keeps lower cost Mercs available for starters. (Feeder motors)

Focus all of our programs on a national platform for a core group of classes that race for national points. Set a criteria for that core group.

I think we focus too hard on numbers of drivers and we don't look at the statics. 100 A drivers is great if we could get them to attend 4 racing weekends and reach into at least one neighboring Region.

I believe everyone's plan and everyone's proposal is to maintain a place to race locally or regionally most or all of the current motors raced.

The planning comes with a national focus on a national platform. Bolstering class participation may include shuffling the deck. Value may be in racing one rig mutiple times rather than adding a ristrictor, changing the height, pulling out weight and racing the same 4 other boats anyway. Racing one motor in 4 classes that all run the same speed doesn't seem to make much sense when all the same drivers are in all.

[Howie Nichols]

Hi Ron,



Classic Outboard Runabout is technically a special event. It can be found at apba.org/special



Thanks!

Dan Weiner

As I understand for 2013

AH and AR Merc and OMC

2014

Merc (But laast year as an "A", to "J" in 2015

2015 Merc to "J" OMC out the door, as Classic Stock isn't connected to Stock at all

Sidewinder in 2015.

By 2015, Sidewinder will need to have made 116 motors??? This is a "GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY"???

Ron,
This is just a proposal it is not gospel and from what the other members on the SORC have been saying it will NOT be passed...

[Big Don]

For those that are upset about the plan above I apologize that I was not clear enough. There is no need to get upset, it is only a theory on how we could roll this out "if" we went to a class structure with one engine classes.

The plan below is a combination of past efforts of the former steering committee, led by John Runne and the past “Sutherland” plan by Dean Sutherland. Both of which had many excellent ideas.
We would like to understand where you the members want to end up. Not doing anything and letting us die a slow death is not an option so we need to do something.
Please take the time to read one of the proposals below that is being suggested. Please remember this is just one of many proposals that the SORC has seen over the past 6 years but it gives you the understanding of what needs to happen. (please remember, this is just an idea!)

Stock Outboard has leadership that is listening very intently on what the direction our category should go by the comments of the majority of the membership. A rant on the internet will not help your cause. Please send an email or call your local commissioner with your thoughts. If you do not have their contact info or if you would like to contact me directly, please send me an email at stockoutboard@apba.org and I promise an answer as fast as possible.

Remember, we have been floundering for years due to not having a plan for the future. We have got to have a direction to go or we are just spinning our wheels (props). It does not matter to me if we have twelve engine classes on the back of bathtubs as long as we have a direction for our future that gives us all hope and time for us all to adjust our own programs to make the best fit.

Thanks for reading,
Jeff

Just thought this was worth bumping.

[14-H]

Great attitude Ed, I guess the same could be said for the investment APBA made with your brothers company.

Dan: Im not going to hijack this thread, but the last time the world's largest economies all raised taxes significantly was in the 1930's (I assume you know what happened thereafter) and increasing the money supply by over 300 fold tends to cause mega-inflation.

We are headed for real trouble and Stock Outboarding will be a casualty.

[Ron Hill]

Not On Topic But

Dan: Im not going to hijack this thread, but the last time the world's largest economies all raised taxes significantly was in the 1930's (I assume you know what happened thereafter) and increasing the money supply by over 300 fold tends to cause mega-inflation.

We are headed for real trouble and Stock Outboarding will be a casualty.

Only a fool can believe that inflation isn't around the corner. Inflation is a tax. People with less disposable income will suffer the most. These people who will suffer on working class boat racers. All the more reason to try to keep Stock Outboarding affordable.

I went to the 1956, 1957, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966 Nationals is cars that didn't have air conditioning. We were low budget racers, we were working people.

I sold 65 props in the month of August for motors smaller than 75 HP, so, small boats have appeal in hard times, but I feel racing and new members is going to be tough going.

This might not be off topic, as kicking someone to the curb that has an OMC might not be smart for APBA!

[G Stillwill]

Ron this is 2012 almost 2013 , Elvis has left the building and Ike isnt the president anymore and the motor that Matt ran at the Nats was box stock just as it came from the factory so your wrong to say it isnt a stock motor. The 15 OMC is the most highly modifyed stock motor we run in stock outboard and that is where the problem is for the new off the street racer. Even if the new person could walk into an OMC dealer and buy a new 15 A motor he would run at the back of the pack with it unless he put another 1000.00 in it to get it so at least it was a middle of the pack motor. New motors level the playing field again without having to know a whole lot.

[Big Don]

As other SORC members have wrote on here. The OMC will not be kicked to the curb.

[Dave M]

Failed

I know non stock members are not supposed to comment, but you know what, screw it. I don't run with that stuff anymore, and we all have the right to speak.

I honestly and truly believe you people (APBA) are missing the ENTIRE point of this madness. You guys and gals are your own worst enemy. You seem to dwell on the past and nobody can make a decision to move forward.

Here is one tidbit, you need to stop thinking like you are. You are NOT racing for the racer. You might think so, but if you are, you are doomed to fail as an organization. You need to race for the support. The hell with all this hoopla of parity, that is no longer in the game, never was, and never will be. You need to creat a bunch of excitment with the spectators and get them to want to race with you. You don't have spectators ? Quit racing in the same spots for the last 50 years and find someplace that is interested in you. Keep going like you are and pretty soon it will be no more than a wildcat club running some hobby runs on the local river before the cops come and kick you out. (did I strike a nerve yet ?)

Bottom Line - and this needs to be at the FRONT and on TOP of ANY AND ALL proposals to save your sport. Short 3 - 4 program with lots of testing prior to that show. Yes I said "show" Full or nearly full fields. Less than 8 boats need to run with another weak class. Don't worry about it, let them run and put on a show.... CREATE EXCITMENT. The sooner you all forget about a friggin thermostat hole being plugged or not the better off you will be. Stock Outboard has never been stock in the last 30 years. In fact, for a time, the D Stock engines could modify their engines more than a D Mod could, minus the pipes, per the rules.

You need to combine categories.

Who am I kidding.... it is pointless to post anything on the subject. The money people run the show with their politics.

[Bob Rusnak]

I know non stock members are not supposed to comment, but you know what, screw it. I don't run with that stuff anymore, and we all have the right to speak.

I honestly and truly believe you people (APBA) are missing the ENTIRE point of this madness. You guys and gals are your own worst enemy. You seem to dwell on the past and nobody can make a decision to move forward.

Here is one tidbit, you need to stop thinking like you are. You are NOT racing for the racer. You might think so, but if you are, you are doomed to fail as an organization. You need to race for the support. The hell with all this hoopla of parity, that is no longer in the game, never was, and never will be. You need to creat a bunch of excitment with the spectators and get them to want to race with you. You don't have spectators ? Quit racing in the same spots for the last 50 years and find someplace that is interested in you. Keep going like you are and pretty soon it will be no more than a wildcat club running some hobby runs on the local river before the cops come and kick you out. (did I strike a nerve yet ?)

Bottom Line - and this needs to be at the FRONT and on TOP of ANY AND ALL proposals to save your sport. Short 3 - 4 program with lots of testing prior to that show. Yes I said "show" Full or nearly full fields. Less than 8 boats need to run with another weak class. Don't worry about it, let them run and put on a show.... CREATE EXCITMENT. The sooner you all forget about a friggin thermostat hole being plugged or not the better off you will be. Stock Outboard has never been stock in the last 30 years. In fact, for a time, the D Stock engines could modify their engines more than a D Mod could, minus the pipes, per the rules.

You need to combine categories.

Who am I kidding.... it is pointless to post anything on the subject. The money people run the show with their politics.

Dave, you are correct in what you say. Example, the stock Nationals are run during the week. If you want to attract any new interest, should be over a weekend were spectators/sponsors can see the event. It just seems that they want to be left alone and run where no one will see them. Yes, need to put on a program that is exciting. For a guy like me who loves boat racing to become board watching the same few boats run over and over again tells me something. For the future of Stock Racing, please make a decision in the right direction to make bigger field of boats and shorten the day. Yes again, the engines are not stock. They are racing engines that have to run exotic fuel to be legal. Just my opinion.....Bob

[Boatracer4fun]

I've put 12 "A" Hydros on the water in the last two years, I own 6 OMC's, and one Formula A. I've owned or had my hands on 4 Mercs. I go to Minden and the Siderwinder pulls a four boat length lead in and 800 foot run to the first turn.

I issue is the SIDEWINDER is NOT A STOCK MOTOR. I can still buy a 15 OMC on E-Bay for $700 dollars and a gearcase for $1,200 and I can have a motor for a lot less than $5,000.

How many Sidewinders are ready to ship for the Winter Nationals? Can we get 1?? 3? What's the ISSUE???

I have three short block for loan to anyone in Region 12 who races "A", all built fresh by Brinkman.

I've supported these new racers, with payment plans, loans and out right gifts. Why should they be kicked to J or Classic Stock?

Anyone consider letting the A Class vote on THEIR rules?

Sounds like a no brainer. If the SW is doing that good, it would sound like the motor of choice. 2 years ago, everybody excuse was that SW could not keep up with the demand and get motors out the door. Well I called SW and got the word right from the horses mouth. Once motor is paid, it will be shipped in less than a week. Not sure about know but I would assume it the same thing.

Somebody else said it in another thread before, it said something like buy a SW or chase one. Seems to be true from what we are hearing online.

(I dont work for SW)

[14-H]

***I honestly and truly believe you people (APBA) are missing the ENTIRE point of this madness. You guys and gals are your own worst enemy. You seem to dwell on the past and nobody can make a decision to move forward.

*** You don't have spectators ? Quit racing in the same spots for the last 50 years and find someplace that is interested in you. ***

***

You need to combine categories.

Who am I kidding.... it is pointless to post anything on the subject. The money people run the show with their politics.

Dave: I agree with you 100%.

[Wild Bill 96D]

If the SW is that fast, sounds like we need to add weight to them so everyone can race. WHERE ARE THE PAIR IT TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTY GUYS ???

[T Chance]

We have a J/A/AX/K OMC and a Racecraft Hydro. My 12 year old granddaughter tested a little this year and will be racing it next year. She has a sister and a brother coming up behind her and I can see the time where the Henry is the J driver, Arianna the AX and Lyndsay the A. I can say we will not compete in a second tier "Classic" Division.

If I personally ran stock I would buy a Sidewinder in a heartbeat.