Stock Outboard Questionaire

[Ron Hill]

Another Day, Another Organization

Ron,

APBA should have been courting BRP years ago but no... The engineers at BRP could have developed the same format of racing and motors for Stock Outboard.

125 Junior MAX, the 125 MAX, the 125 MAX DD2 and the 125 MAX DD2 Masters race series.

http://www.brp.com/en-us/engines/rotax-kart-engines

The Rotax MAX Challenge is the biggest kart racing series in the world. The national, continental and international series of the Rotax MAX Challenge now has more than 15,000 drivers across more than 50 countries in four different classes.

Dan:

A Dixie Mud Motor in and electric start, CARB approved is $2,900 and they have made and sold hundreds of these....

A guy down the street from me builds 400 RC boats a year, some are six feet long. They all run weed eater motors.

Nothing in APBA even looks to do something like this.....APBA is a sanction body, not a promoting body!

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

good post

Scott Deware,
That was one of the best posts I have read on Hydroracer in a while. Thank you for taking the time to write it. I have been working the past two weeks on compiling the data you mentioned and it hasn't been very easy. I do not have your contact info. If you could send me an email, I would like to ask you some questions and get some suggestions if possible.
Thank you,
Jeff Brewster

email:
stockoutboard@apba.org

[ram95]

Solution to A problem

Yup. Here it is folks, the ultimate answer concerning what to do with the 15 Sidewinder. Are you ready? Turn it over to the J Committee.

The J Committee is in total control of things 15 cube or under. Witness the speeds in AX. Witness the absence of the 'rounded pickle rule' for J drivers. Witness the confoluted throttle hookup on the Merc 15. Witness the plugging of the T-Stat passage on the Merc 15. Witness the 'any bearing, seals or rings for the Merc 15. Lookit the speeds... it's going right up there with the A's.

And, now enter the 15 Sidewinder which has created a real dilema for the A folks trying to enjoy an economical existence.... fuggedaboudit!! So here's the way I see it. Give the A Class to the J Committee, put them in charge. Let them figure out how fast they want to go. Maybe they can do the J group with identical props for drives up to 12.. call them J and restrict their speed to 38. Then take what used to be called AX and AXE that. Rename that class the Sen'or Class (No age limit just like AX was) and let them run the Sidewinder, OMC, Merc, Rotax, and Volvo B10, whatever. Get Stock Outboard out of there. Give A to the J committee. Be done with it. They want the kids to go fast? Good, give it to em.

[Wild Bill 96D]

Scott Deware,
That was one of the best posts I have read on Hydroracer in a while. Thank you for taking the time to write it. I have been working the past two weeks on compiling the data you mentioned and it hasn't been very easy. I do not have your contact info. If you could send me an email, I would like to ask you some questions and get some suggestions if possible.
Thank you,
Jeff Brewster

email:
stockoutboard@apba.org

Scott Deware For president. Finally, someone using there head. Thank you Scott. WILD BILL

[bill boyes]

Yup. Here it is folks, the ultimate answer concerning what to do with the 15 Sidewinder. Are you ready? Turn it over to the J Committee.

The J Committee is in total control of things 15 cube or under. Witness the speeds in AX. Witness the absence of the 'rounded pickle rule' for J drivers. Witness the confoluted throttle hookup on the Merc 15. Witness the plugging of the T-Stat passage on the Merc 15. Witness the 'any bearing, seals or rings for the Merc 15. Lookit the speeds... it's going right up there with the A's.

And, now enter the 15 Sidewinder which has created a real dilema for the A folks trying to enjoy an economical existence.... fuggedaboudit!! So here's the way I see it. Give the A Class to the J Committee, put them in charge. Let them figure out how fast they want to go. Maybe they can do the J group with identical props for drives up to 12.. call them J and restrict their speed to 38. Then take what used to be called AX and AXE that. Rename that class the Sen'or Class (No age limit just like AX was) and let them run the Sidewinder, OMC, Merc, Rotax, and Volvo B10, whatever. Get Stock Outboard out of there. Give A to the J committee. Be done with it. They want the kids to go fast? Good, give it to em.

Gezz, Now blame the J Committee for the Ills of Stock Outboard. And we are only in early December 2012. Where will we be in early 2013? Anyone take a look at the Proposed SORC rule changes for 2013?

[14-H]

This is not going to help get new racers. A better economy and having the ability to spend cash on racing will help more then changing everything.

That will not be happening anytime soon.

[HRTV]

That will not be happening anytime soon.

Great attitude Ed, I guess the same could be said for the investment APBA made with your brothers company.

[ram95]

Eliminate Commisions not motors

While everyone is choking and spilling their cup of joe over my suggestion that we give the A Class to the J Committee, I've got another one for ya.

We've got 4 Commissions, all in separate caves. However, the lights are powered by one small generator. The Generator being those folks interested specifically in racing boats with outboard motors.

There no doubt was a time when the Generator could pull a 4 Commission load. I think that time has long-since passed.

alex
SO Region One

[csh2z]

Sounds to me Alex, that you don't have much confidence in our future. Not a very good attitude for a commissioner.

[Tim Weber]

Here are some on my thought on running the classic equipment.

When I left racing in the 90's it was an economic decision. I was getting a career going and started a business. The equipment I had was the older stuff and I just didn't have the money to up-grade to the new.

As almost anyone who has ever raced a boat, the desire to participate never leaves you. During the 10 years or so when I was broke, I looked into racing my old equipment a number of times and there was no place for it.

At the time, I never understood why it was just thrown to the scrap heap like yesterday's garbage. Well, the truth is the factories wanted the old equipment gone. Mercury wanted the 44xs and 25xs and OMC wanted their A and 45ss. That was ok in that they were supporting the program. That was 20+ years ago. They have pulled out. This has left a vacuum and the sucking noise hasn't stopped since they left.

Now we are still stuck on the mantra of "we need new equipment that can be readily bought to attract new blood", Well, I've seen very little proof of that. Montoya has 70 or 80 302's ready to go and I don't think he's had a run on his inventory.

What I'm getting at is, stock racing can really be what ever we want. We are not tied to any factory or sponsor. We are really closed exhaust, blue printed mod racing. With that in mind, why not adopt a run what you brung policy within stock rules. Run KG-4's with OMC's and Sidewinders, run 30H's with Y102's & 302's, run 20H's, 25ss, and 25xs together etc. Score the motors seperately. Don't add seperate classes. The day is long enough! I would much rather see a field of 12 A's in mixed company than this alphabet soup of 3 boat races we have now. IMSA car racing does this all the time. I am not sure I would want this at a nationals but at the local level. The bottom line is WE NEED BOATS! If the thing floats we need it. We need entry money! If we brought 20 classic rigs out of mothballs that would be about a 6% growth in participation. When was the last time that happened?

I was at Wakefield at the last nationals where they ran the old toilet bowls. It
was a huge success. Mike Hoffman heard about the chance to race a 20H again. He had been out for 20 years. He bought a couple of old Bezoats and a couple of motors from local collectors just to run this 1 race. There is quite an attachment to the old iron. I still have a couple of 55H motors and a couple of classic D boats. I walk past them everyday like old pets.

If this was available in the 90's, my old D equipment would have been on the water during my years of weiners and beans. I would have been involved the whole time.

Isn't participation really what it's all about?

Just some food for thought.

Tim

[ram95]

Give ma a Yellow Card

Sounds to me Alex, that you don't have much confidence in our future. Not a very good attitude for a commissioner.

Sorry if it comes across that way John. But, the more ideas we get out on the table the better. But, whenever we talk about a "Plan B" we've always got to consider the 6 classes run by the J Committee. And, they have done a darn good job of taking charge of the 'junior' part of the equation. Trouble is, it's more than just a 'junior' class when they start running the AX at A speeds. As always, I respect your ideas and opinions.

Alex

[rumleyfips]

Although non members have been warned off; here is my story. I ran from 1966 to 1981,15+ weekends a year, within 400 miles of the Thousand Islands bridge.

When I started Hot Rod A's were legal in Canada and Cal Meklinger tried to sell me one. I didn't bite, the KG4 was a more pleasant engine. In the late 70's, Shannon and Craig tried to convince me to buy an American Hot Rod for ASR. Good thing I declined, Hot Rod had no intention of building an A engine with parody: they wanted to force the KG4 out. Then Jon Stone came around at Silver Lake and asked about peoples view of new engines . I told him I would quit.

A couple of years later I had a decent ASR, ASH, the fastest Yamato 80r qualfying time at Lake Placid, a Y80H, a winning 25ssR and was driving a BSR and a CSR for friends. The problem was, all my knowledge was about to be trashed by new engines. I could see that to stay would mean new engines, different boats and new props. I quit. Why would I stay when the organization showd no respect for me?

Did I make the right decision? Yes; APBA pushed me aside to support those who wanted new engines.

[bill boyes]

I have been on the J Committee for a number of years now. We kinda look at things from outside of the trees so to speak. Most of us do not have a motor box nor prop box full of J equipment so we do not really have an interest in ourselves per say. I do think that we did make a error in plugging the Merc as it was presented as just removing the thermostat. When the rule came out it was added plugging the hole. So now that the genie is out of the bottle some say well plugging has helped the planning off issue. Yes maybe so but it has added a few miles per hour to the speeds. Remember the Mec 15 was an New "A" motor. It was a little slower still is. It was put to ballot to the "A' drivers to add a restrictor to the OMC. It was rejected. So now what does the SORC do? They gave it to the J Committee. We made a few rule changes then comes along George and he makes the Merc run. Then the ring issue. Just before the Nationals it was discovered that the Piston rings were non Merc. Well we learned there were many Merc 15 motors had non Merc rings because the rings were manufactured in China and no one know at Merc when piston rings would be available. So We J committee took action and issued the ring rule. Question what rings are in many Stock racing motors even in the OMC 15. Yes lots of whining but what to do. DQ all the mercs at the Nationals. I do not think so.
Remember one thing is that the J Committee is not self serving. WE care about the J class and the Kids. Look at the current SORC rule change proposals. AS in the past very self serving. This year very HOC tilted and get rid of the Sidewinder. Gezz a guy really likes the sport decides to give back to the sport and financially backs the Sidewinder and now those with OMC's in there motor box are whining.
I remember the days when just a certain cast number was the thing with the KG-4. If you did not have a block with that cast number you were a back marker. As George said he does not want to go through 10 OMC 15's to find a front runner. Wake up with the Sidewinder as I really believe it is a Golden Egg and if rejected the Stock Outboard will never get another chance at a new motor.

[Ron Hill]

Hi Ron,



Classic Outboard Runabout is technically a special event. It can be found at apba.org/special



Thanks!

Dan Weiner

As I understand for 2013

AH and AR Merc and OMC

2014

Merc (But laast year as an "A", to "J" in 2015

2015 Merc to "J" OMC out the door, as Classic Stock isn't connected to Stock at all

Sidewinder in 2015.

By 2015, Sidewinder will need to have made 116 motors??? This is a "GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY"???

[bill boyes]

Ron I do not know how many Sidewinders have been made but by 2015 I really do not think that it will be an issue. Question why is that an issue with you? How many Merc 15 RACING motors are they? How many Racing Tohots are there. Did Merc make that many 44ss?