If I Were King I'd....

[mdaspit]

[QUOTE=PopPop;171264]

Open forums like this are refreshing place to air your views. It's good to know what others think. It shouldn't raise your blood pressure. As some one who has now stated that they think they know how to "fix" the money problems, don't you feel these ideas should be put out there for honest criticism. A little of that is good for all of us.

Pop Pop
Some how in your post, it looks like I am being given the credit for KB's post.
Sorry to say it wasn't me.
If i had cracked the code on how to make more money for the club, I would be shouting it from the.... I don't know what, but would be shouting it somewhere.

[PopPop]

[QUOTE=94H;171259]

Here's something positive - I have talked to a fellow race director and I think I know how to fix my money problem for the next two or three years.
Merry Christmas everyone!
I will try to keep to my rule that I stay off of HR because it raises my blood pressure. I miss boat racing !BK

Open forums like this are refreshing place to air your views. It's good to know what others think. It shouldn't raise your blood pressure. As some one who has now stated that they think they know how to "fix" the money problems, don't you feel these ideas should be put out there for honest criticism. A little of that is good for all of us.

[B Walker]

[QUOTE=94H;171259]

No, I don't think that's what he means, its just that the lack of club money is not the real problem, it is a symptom of a much larger problem.

Sorry.
When B Walker (Brad or Bill?) wrote that my earlier post was a "meaningless detail" , I thought he meant it. Also, My comment about selling APBA to investors was not serious.

Here's something positive - I have talked to a fellow race director and I think I know how to fix my money problem for the next two or three years.

Merry Christmas everyone!
I will try to keep to my rule that I stay off of HR because it raises my blood pressure. I miss boat racing !

BK

Please read back carefully. I posted thanking Mark Da Spit on addressing big picture concepts when so many of the posts in this thread address the "meaningless details". And just to clarify what I think are "meaningless details", any post here that addresses a symptom and not a cause is a meaningless detail in my book.

More members solves ALL money problems. Therefore focusing on growing the membership fixes an underlying cause. 50/50 raffles, raising entry fees, getting sponsorship money, etc...all address symptoms and are a meaningless detail.

We have spent too many years addressing symptoms and not causes.

If causes are fixed then symptoms go away.

Brad Walker

[94H]

[QUOTE=mdaspit;171142]No, I don't think that's what he means, its just that the lack of club money is not the real problem, it is a symptom of a much larger problem.

Sorry.
When B Walker (Brad or Bill?) wrote that my earlier post was a "meaningless detail" , I thought he meant it. Also, My comment about selling APBA to investors was not serious.

Here's something positive - I have talked to a fellow race director and I think I know how to fix my money problem for the next two or three years.

Merry Christmas everyone!
I will try to keep to my rule that I stay off of HR because it raises my blood pressure. I miss boat racing !

BK

[B Walker]

One more thing....

One of the reasons this site appears so critical and contentious is because of the lack of responses by anyone with any authority to actually do anything.

It takes two people to have communication and except for the original poster only one side is represented in this dialogue. This increases the frustation of the general membership and the cycle just escalates.

If the leadership engaged with the general membership I am certain the tone would soften dramatically.


BW

[B Walker]

I am sorry Bill...

Things have changed and here is how:

It is no longer possible to hide anyones "dirty laundry" in the age of information. For better or worse that is the way it is.

If HR decided to censor themselves someone else would just start another site.

I ask instead for the leadership to engage here or in a venue of their choice.

The leaderships policy of nonresponse to the membership in a public forum is just as damaging as any criticism of them or the organization.

This is a fundamental change in society that businesses are just starting to wrap their heads around. And APBA is certainly a business. The members are their clients.

example:

Toyotas policy of nonresponse to their sudden accelleration issue did not make the problem go away. It made it worse because the policy of communications blackout by Toyota leadership made it seem as though they were either arrogantly unaware of the problems or aware and hiding from it.

That is exactly the perception of the general APBA membership of the APBA leadership and it will not change until the leadership engages.

You cannot open peoples hearts and change peoples minds with silence.

Brad Walker

[Big Don]

If folks want this tread to go away we can make that happen but I don't want another one started again with just a different title. Also we don"t want folks sending us PM's saying we are over sensoring.

You all decide but after watching this thread I am not sure a mutual consenses can be reached.

Let us know in a nice way. After all it is the holiday season

While I was ready to say I agree with Bill...I say keep it up or start a new thread that is all pointed toward the positive.

I think if we focused on the good and what we can do to make it better and don't turn it into APBA is the evil empire we should see something good from it.

The problem is we will never agree on what the problem/s are and what should be don't to fix them.

I see post and I wonder what the person posting think that means because it probably means something different to several of us.

[Matt Dagostino]

DETROIT..........Things to do?

Turn it into a vacation and go for the week I know Detroit does not sound like a hot spot but every city has thing to do and see. And I may be a little biased but Detroit is a cool city with lot’s to do and see.

This could be the start of a new thread!! Can you arrange 'comp' tickets to a Redwings game for the entire SORC at the National Meeting next month!! I was at a Caps game the other night and they stink lately!!

Ho Ho Ho

[Big Don]

Work keeps getting in the way of this hobby. See ya in Detroit!

I'm not picking on him...just saying that if a person walks away or doesn't get involved how can one complain? I stopped a few years ago with the politics therefore I don't think I have a right to complain about APBA. As a member we do have the right to offer suggestions and stuff but to sit back and complain like some do is just not right nor is it fair.

Don Sr told me that the day I stopping being involved or holding an office I don't have the right to complain. Only so many can hold an office but everyone can attend meetings and offer to help or be on committees. And I truly believe that everyone can. The excuse of I can’t afford or I can’t get the time off work… Really? You can but it’s just not a high enough priority. Now I know some jobs force workers to take 1 week at a time and thing like that so maybe they can’t go. But you could if you really wanted to…Turn it into a vacation and go for the week I know Detroit does not sound like a hot spot but every city has thing to do and see. And I may be a little biased but Detroit is a cool city with lot’s to do and see. You could still volunteer to be on a committee or get involved even if you don’t go.

[blueskyracer]

If folks want this tread to go away we can make that happen but I don't want another one started again with just a different title. Also we don"t want folks sending us PM's saying we are over sensoring.

You all decide but after watching this thread I am not sure a mutual consenses can be reached.

Let us know in a nice way. After all it is the holiday season

[Matt Dagostino]

Steppin out.............

Ok let me have it

Missed you for the last couple weeks. I can only guess you were out testing your new Sidewinder?????

Leave poor ole Ron alone before he makes a comeback and kicks both our butt's!!

Later

[raceright]

Ron??? Really...Isn't that like calling the kettle black? In your own words..I don't even join APBA anymore. Talk about putting your head in the sand.

I know you have done a lot for racing but isn't that really what you did when you stopped getting involved in the politics.

If everyone that thought APBA was so bad got together I'm willing to bet they could make a difference. I'm willing to bet they could win a few elections and make a difference.

Ron I don't know you real well. I know you had a fast DSR back in the day. But just to support you...If you ran for an APBA office I will guarantee you my vote. Does not matter if I agree with you or not, if a person is that passionate about our sport as you seem to be I will give you my support and let’s see if you can make a difference.

That also goes for...
Dave Mason
Pat Wright
Bill Van Steenwyk
Not singling just you guys out (ok I guess I am) it goes for everyone that thinks our current administration and the past administration are/were idiots and think they can do better.

You all have my vote for any office you run for.

Remember, if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.


Ok let me have it

Thanks for your vote--As I of the names you mentioned am on the inside fighting for the future of Pro racing--have been a commissioner for about 6 years and I am one again this year..So if I ever figure out how to best turn things around for APBA I might need your vote. But as I always try to help and have done so in the Pro Category and USTS one day I might need your vote for APBA BOD (there gonna hate it I gurantee)

Thanks
Pat Wright

ugg I sound like a politician

[Big Don]

Yulp, just like we've always done things for 50 years!!!! The truth and open forum can't be good!!!!

Ron??? Really...Isn't that like calling the kettle black? In your own words..I don't even join APBA anymore. Talk about putting your head in the sand.

I know you have done a lot for racing but isn't that really what you did when you stopped getting involved in the politics.

If everyone that thought APBA was so bad got together I'm willing to bet they could make a difference. I'm willing to bet they could win a few elections and make a difference.

Ron I don't know you real well. I know you had a fast DSR back in the day. But just to support you...If you ran for an APBA office I will guarantee you my vote. Does not matter if I agree with you or not, if a person is that passionate about our sport as you seem to be I will give you my support and let’s see if you can make a difference.

That also goes for...
Dave Mason
Pat Wright
Bill Van Steenwyk
Not singling just you guys out (ok I guess I am) it goes for everyone that thinks our current administration and the past administration are/were idiots and think they can do better.

You all have my vote for any office you run for.

Remember, if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.


Ok let me have it

[RLR]

Amen mike

If folks on our web site cannot post in a constructive way then how do you expect them to be any better at a national meeting. This is the whole reason nothing gets changed for the better. And starting a new thread part 2 is.....well need I say more!!!!


Having a non racer view this may bring an idea that us dunder heads had not thought of. Each of brings a set of values based on experience. I want someone else to comment, it might jar some ideas that need to be heard.




Mike, That's is it, just AMEN TO YOUR COMMENT

[hydroracer25]

I had not been to a Stock Nationals since 1979, when I went to Whitney Point , NY. The course was so big, I couldn't see anything thing really, and they raced from sun up to sun down, after one day, I wished I'd gone to Needles or anywhere...25 Runabout, C Runabout, AXS, Runabout B. Runabout....They don't look like runabout, but they do all look the same...Not to mention the unsportsman like conduct I saw toward J. Michael Kelly, probably the best driver of this century!

I have not been back to a Stock Nationals, and don't plan to go!

First off Ron, and supporting Bill Pavlick's point you only speak partial truths and a lot is based on your opinion or perception of this event and it's happenings. Much like the posts here on this thread are many times one-sided and don't portray the "Good" that people like Bill Pavlick and many other from the midwest have done to make positive steps in our sport. So let me clarify a few things:
1) It was a Stock, Mod and J Nationals in 2008 at Whitney Pt., NY. In 1979 it only a Stock Nationals so there is a difference (basically 3 categories combined).
2) I don't believe it was the hosting club's intention to run "from sun up to sun down", but due to mother nature, they got behind and were forced to do this to complete the Nationals. This can and does happen and almost all Nationals on at least 1 day. Remember, mother nature...APBA, NASCAR, NBRA, AOF, AMA, NHRA and even Ron Hill can't control it!
3) Were you on the race course that week at all? No, then don't talk about unsportsmanlike conduct. You never got in a heated discussion after a race with someone that you thought "wronged" you. Remember it takes two to tango, even the driver of the century.

The truth and open forum can't be good!!!!

The truth, let's talk about that. If everyone that ran their mouths (or fingers) on this site took the time to put someone in a boat or held a "racers school" at 2-3 of their races we would have more members. More members = more revenue = more help. But now the hard part...truth. Do we sell them a tired piece of crap motor and boat that can't win or that we want to "unload" OR do we direct them to engine they can buy and have a good shot to win with given some testing and time to learn how to drive. This is one of the biggest problems we face right now and a lot will depend on this new racers budget, expectations and their ability. The key is to be honest with new members/racers and set their expectations correctly (ie. they want to get into it on a tight budget, then they most likely will not win and some are OK with that).

Bottom line, if 1/4 of the people that posted on this thread stopped b!tching and got off their a$$ and 'recruited' people into the sport we'd be a lot better off!

Mark