If I Were King I'd....

[Team B&H]

I think it could work very well with and without radios.

Without radios, it could be done with large numbers like NASCAR pit signs or flags ... each entrant could supply their own numbered sign or flag. My personal observation is that very few boat racers look at the flags. If there was a penalty like not being eligible for the next heat, racers would probably pay more attention.

Everyone complains about barriers to entry, this would be one. Like I said before, it just simply isn't practical.

We are trying to gain more membership, not create more rules that we racers will become divided over.

[sam]

I think it could work very well with and without radios.

Without radios, it could be done with large numbers like NASCAR pit signs or flags ... each entrant could supply their own numbered sign or flag. My personal observation is that very few boat racers look at the flags. If there was a penalty like not being eligible for the next heat, racers would probably pay more attention.

[Team B&H]

Actually, I've always wondered if there is a safe way to order gun jumpers off the course, right away, to make a better race course for racers, or at least racers that work hard to not jump the gun.
Probably not too popular an idea, but I've always thought that jumping the gun is losing, right off the bat, and it seems to make a good clean race harder to come by, let alone understandable for the fans. No points, just my opinion.
Lots of passionate people on this thread. Good stuff.

This would not work without radios obviously. But even with radios this still would be a stretch. For example: if a heat of DSH was running at the nationals and they were all bunched up at the start it makes it hard for scorers to determine the jumpers and the race would practically be almost over by the time the start is figured out. How many times has the heat been completed and the judges are still looking at the video? Not trying to razz you, just looking into the practicality of it all.

-Bill

[krazy karl]

Things Have Changed

I became interested in boat racing back in the late fifty's when I was in my early teens. Boat racing then was a big deal and drew lots of boats and spectators. My interest had a lot to do with seeing what a motor like the family's outboard, a KG7, could do on a race boat and how the Mercurys did against the competing brands. Didn't know too much about the racers involved except the local hotshoe.

In the sixties I also followed NASCAR which was very similar with Fords and Chevies duking it out, with Mopar trying to spoil their fun. These cars were the family sedans set up for racing, no tube frames or special racing engines.

The point is we all watched our favorite brands because they were pretty much what was on the street and had favorite drivers because they drove our brand.

Look at NASCAR today. The cars are all the same and bear no resemblance to the family sedan externally or internally. So there is no real loyalty to the make of car like there used to be, it is now all celebrity drivers and their antics. This is what NASCAR has done to survive.

I think a lot of this has to do with our current society and it's relationship with the automobile. Our cars for the most part are no longer a major interest in the majority of our population. It has become an appliance with more interest in the electronics available in the dashboard. How many times do we hear someone say "I am going to 'turn on' my car."

How does this relate to the issue at hand? Outboards currently sold have the same lack of mystique as most of the cars today and do not even closely resemble what is on the race course. Again the majority of the owners of smaller outboards use them as a means of getting to the fish and the boat and motor is of secondary importance. The majority of performance boat owners today in my area have V8 powered wakeboard boats and similar or bass boats with 250hp outboards neither of which has any connection to what we do. As far as celebrity status goes among boat racers, how many of us are household names names across the nation and will ever be except amongst ourselves.

So how does this relate to us? I think we need to build our sport as a wholesome family activity. I started racing only fairly recently mainly in marathons because that was what interested me. Even though this resulted in very limited participation I started attending some of the closed course races to help out as I felt like I was becoming a part of the "family". So it was a no brainer, I now race closed course too. Boat racing has become one of the best times of my life and I wouldn't trade it for anything. It isn't just the boat racing, it is the whole experience, hanging out with friends, kicking propellers, helping each other and and a beer or three thrown in at the end of the day.

To keep boat racing viable I believe we need to promote this aspect of our sport especially since most other sporting venues have become so cutthroat and glory be to me oriented.

In region 11 we have the "rent a boat for a day" NORCAL 400 with safe stable boats for interested people to try out at a reasonable cost. It has been targeted towards the younger crowd and has brought quite a few new drivers into our region, young and old. This program could be done in other regions too but it does take some work to run and maintain equipment. Retired race boats and motors are very cost effective for setting up such a program.

We also need to keep costs down and lower them if possible. Cutting down on the length of the race day would help reduce costs that are directly related to time used such as ambulance, paramedic/divers, etc. Combining classes where possible would be one way. I don't think eliminating a class because of low boat turnout is a good idea, we need to get and keep every driver we can and work towards expanding the class.

The Yamato has certainly helped keep boat racing alive because of it's low cost, availability and durability. We need more these, the Hot Rod hopefully will become another of the same as more of them are built. We need to encourage this kind of development and not throw roadblocks in the way when a new one is in the works.

Several other good suggestions have already been made in the cost reduction arena so I won't repeat but I just want to say that I agree that some type of general low cost utility class be available to new drivers. NORCAL is great but a class where the new driver can have a boat to call his own and tweak as desired and draw a boat # out of a hat. I would suggest a simple runabout design tailored for the current popular 9.8 fishing motors or at least something similar. This should be an entry level class that someone could try without breaking the bank especially if they decide boat racing isn't for them. Probably not feasible at a national level but certainly doable at a regional or club level.

Sorry for the rambling but I too do not want to see boat racing go away.
kk

[B Walker]

I agree a benevolent dictator is the best form of leadership and believe the France family in NASCAR is a prime example.

This entire thread is an exercise in mental masturbation as absoloutely none of the items on this list that are actually solutions to any current problems will happen until there is a fundamental change in the outlook of the membership or the form of government that APBA uses changes.

I dont see either happening anytime soon.

Real change does not occur until an organization hits bottom and bottom wont happen until Region 6 and 7 have the problems the rest of the country has had for years.

BW

"If your membership is not growing, your dying"

[Hydroglobe17J]

1) Centralized Nationals - for all categories, hosted and promoted by APBA. APBA should benefit from our Sanctioned Nationals Events - not clubs. Maybe even an APBA owned site....or combined classes or categories. Make it spectator friendly. Don't park all of our enclosed trailers on the water's edge park bleachers of people watching the competition on the water.

2) Consolidation - No safety rules should be left to categories. A committee should be formed from across the organization. This committee makes all decisions based on the best interest of our membership and our risk as an organization. This will reduce duplication and clumsy verbiage.....steamline what we need and not what a small movement in a category sees as its own pressing issue.

3) Mandated National platform of classes recognized for competition as national classes with national points. Let local clubs race whatever they want. Then at a specific time slot during the day we run our premier classes. Reduce the number of classes across the board to well populated classes and classes we are planning for the future.

4) In production equipment only. The only motors that should be raced on the a fore mentioned platform are motors that the general public....Joe the plumber can access with no previous knowledge of the sport of boat racing. At least for an entry level well promoted class within each category.

Race ready.....it is the responsibility of ABPA to insure that these products are easily accessible. APBA has to insure this ease of entry. Not the categories all spirally off in there own direction. If we had the greater good in mind for all plans within APBA we would have a range of likely lower cost spec classes rather than one that may only benefit one category.

5) Stop planning everything we do to the lowest common denominator. Set the bar at a reasonable height and work on ways to bring people to that mark.

This Reed Guy is Smart!

[Matt Dagostino]

Success in Racing.....................

Does anyone beside me wonder why Ed posted this topic? I mean Ed is not known for seeking anyone elses opinion on anything. And thats OK, seems the majority of voters in APBA dont mind that.
BW

How Ed chooses to gather information or opinions is his business. Most successful racing organizations are basically 'dictatorships'.

The only thriving cataglory in APBA is the J Class Division. It is governed by 2 people. The APBA President and the J Committee Chairman. The 10 person J Committee are simply advisors to the Chairman and that Chair- person makes all decisions with the President of APBA and on rare occassions with the Board Of Directors of APBA!! Of course the key is to have 'Dictators' in power that are qualified.

Seems current SORC Chairman Hearn and past Chairman Reed take way to much blame for the current situation we find ourselves in.............having been re-voted on the SORC after a 25 year absence i have seen the same ole crap i saw 25 years ago! Most of the Commission have there own agenda and getting anything done , especially the right thing(at least in my eyes) is impossible. Actually the Chairman has LESS power than 25 years ago!! Back in the day when i served on the SORC the Chairman APPOINTED the SORC and nowadays each Region elects it's represenitive. Guess that's Democracy at work.....or not!

[raceright]

Actually, I've always wondered if there is a safe way to order gun jumpers off the course, right away, to make a better race course for racers, or at least racers that work hard to not jump the gun.
Probably not too popular an idea, but I've always thought that jumping the gun is losing, right off the bat, and it seems to make a good clean race harder to come by, let alone understandable for the fans. No points, just my opinion.
Lots of passionate people on this thread. Good stuff.

All

many times those who jump the gun do not know they did. Deffinatly in classes over 100mph. Often scores in USTS do not know till they view a picture after the heat. Its the way it is and just understand it.

Pat

[Andrew 4CE]

Actually, I've always wondered if there is a safe way to order gun jumpers off the course, right away, to make a better race course for racers, or at least racers that work hard to not jump the gun.
Probably not too popular an idea, but I've always thought that jumping the gun is losing, right off the bat, and it seems to make a good clean race harder to come by, let alone understandable for the fans. No points, just my opinion.
Lots of passionate people on this thread. Good stuff.

Inspection aside, I just feel if you travel to a race and tried, regardless of outcome on the course, you should get more points than someone who stayed at home on the couch.

Agreed though... jumpers and DQ'ers can get in the way of legal racers. And I've crashed before trying to get by someone who jumped. I can't see away around that unless all had radios.

[kampkurz]

Gun Jumping!

1) 5) jumping the gun, you get a 1 minute penalty, not DQ. Or some way to award some minimal points if you raced regardless of outcome. No one on the water should get zero unless maybe failing inspection.

Actually, I've always wondered if there is a safe way to order gun jumpers off the course, right away, to make a better race course for racers, or at least racers that work hard to not jump the gun.
Probably not too popular an idea, but I've always thought that jumping the gun is losing, right off the bat, and it seems to make a good clean race harder to come by, let alone understandable for the fans. No points, just my opinion.
Lots of passionate people on this thread. Good stuff.

[rball82]

king for a day

1st, I really like the idea of "Dash for cash". Several options here like
Largest class has option say 20 dollar from each driver that wants in, and purse to winner. Club could take a share. This could be run as a special event like Lock Haven did. Also would encourage another boat off trailer that normally would not run.
2nd, Clarksville Va had tow money from T-shirt sales, very cool.
3rd- Title Series has an award for a class that needs a boost in numbers and has several donations for the year end points winner.
4th, making suggestions no matter how far off they seem to be is some one most times trying to be constrctive, do not believe personal attacks were intended for this thread.
Can't wait for next race.

[B Walker]

Ed cant delete other peoples posts. Dont take the bait.

Does anyone beside me wonder why Ed posted this topic? I mean Ed is not known for seeking anyone elses opinion on anything. And thats OK, seems the majority of voters in APBA dont mind that.

Call me a conspiracy theorist but I think Ed posted this topic not because he was seeking creative out of the box thinking on ways to fix APBA (If it is broken) but because he knew the "usual suspects" would pipe up and re-enforce the "Hydrowhiner" nickname.

Well they did.

Point made, Ed, well played sir.

This forum will not be able to be used at its full capacity until the leadership blackout on posting in public forums is lifted.

I know who is looking at these forums and am satisfied with one way communication for now.

BW

[bill van steenwyk]

There you go again, Eddie................

(Quote) By Eddie the Chairman

"I should delete your post for lack of any real ideas."

(Unquote)

As one of your favorite Presidents (and mine) famously said, "There you go again".

It just amazes me that someone who is such a staunch conservative, and supposedly values the things this country is supposed to stand for, among them being free speech and the free exchange of ideas, would make a statement like I quoted you above, on a public forum. This is exactly why I have absolutely no respect for you or anything you stand for, insofar as a leadership position in APBA. Just as you tried to do several years back regards our disagreement about the "radio rule" and the action I took when I appealed to what I THOUGHT you might have in the way of good judgement about the safety of fellow boat racers, by trying to have me thrown out of APBA and then banned from further membership when I went over your head, your post on this thread regards my comments only further shows the type person you really are.

Your post shows and says more about you than I EVER could. Now you might want to think seriously about deleting YOURS, not mine.

[PopPop]

We do #3 all the time in the east ... still not rolling in the dough ... its not much of a help

In the end 50/50s are not very effective because we are simply selling them to ourselves, although often the winners do donate the winnings back to the club.

[sam]

We do #3 all the time in the east ... still not rolling in the dough ... its not much of a help