2010 SORC and Chairman

[PRO-MOTIONRACING]

Lets see... stock car racing dirt or pavement prepared car ready to race 2000.00 (used) Drag/Bracket racing prepared car ready to race 2000.00 (used) Motocross 1500.00 (used) Motorcycle road racing prepared bike ready to race 2500.00 (Used) and all these organizations have class structures that allow this stuff to be competitive.
New Super comp car 28,500.00+, New motocross bike 8,090.00, New road race bike (R-1)13,290.00, New sprint car?

No point other than if you were interested in getting into one of these sports would you be looking new or used?

[pav225]

Where is the A class Mike? OMC (25yrs young) or a non competitive Merc ( at least at the national level)
New SideWinder for 15ss yes B no

OBTW Happy Holidays!!!

Kev,
Simply making the point that for every speed range you can buy a new motor. Right???
40+ MPH: New Merc
55+ MPH: New Merc
65 MPH: New Yamato and New SideWinder (15 c.i.)
70 MPH: New Yamato
80 MPH: New Tohatsu

- Mike

[mercguy]

Scott Said "Disservice? New motors help to close the gap. If we allow old motors to continue to be our only option the difference between the top runners and the guys that cannot get parts, cannot find multiple powerheads, does not have the time to test multiple powerheads.......the new motors will help these folks."

Scott - The FACT is there are new motors available for the 20ssh (now BSH class) and they are Yamato 302s. In addition to the motors being available, they are very cost competitive and perform consistently. I strongly believe that the Stock Outboard Commission should not take away from the Yamato supplier's long time investments by approving new motors from a different manufacturer in that class. Some time ago I submitted posts on Hydroracer on this subject and I believe those posts still apply today.

I recognize this whole discussion centers around Sidewinder motors and getting them into Stock Outboard. That issue needs to be addressed directly and not in a subversive manor that slowly pushes out the available and reliable Yamato motors. As I had said in previous posts, we need to find a place to the Sidewinder motors and that place should not be in classes in which we already have new motors available. The 20ssh class is one of the largest classes in SO - the class is not broken and has long term viability. Let’s keep it that way and find another solution for the Sidewinder 20 Cu. In.

"I strongly believe that the Stock Outboard Commission should not take away from the Yamato supplier's long time investments by approving new motors from a different manufacturer in that class."

I also feel this should be a goal also. Yes, the Sidewinder "should" have a class it can compete in, but the focus should NOT be in classes where currently available motors exist............mainly the 20SSH/BSH class...............how about STEADILY suporting the other motor supplers out there, like RPM (Yamato) and Bass Machines (Tohatsu). I remember awhile back when there was so much NEGATIVITY and unwelcomeness for the new Tohatsu motor in DSH (still is in Dmod!!!), so how about giving these guys the same kind of support as is being given to the Sidewinder.........

[Shep]

Personally i would get rid of the AX class...if the class is suppose to be a middle class for KIDS to race between J and A, Then why do we have 40 year olds running the class? You have merc AX motors running really well all over the country and the fastest rigs could beat some fast A stocks! Condence the number of 'A' classes, include merc, this would increase the number of participats in A stock. And i wouldn't have to watch the same kids race 3 different classses and scramble to make motor and restictor changes. This could only improve stock ouboard.

What's the problem with being able to run 3 to 6 classes with the same motor? When you only run three laps at a time, 6 total for the day, that is very disappointing to me. Drive 2 hours to ride in your boat for 20 minutes total for the weekend. That would drive me right out of the sport. Also we all know seat time is the key to success why would anyone want to limit a kids time on the water?

Shep

[PRO-MOTIONRACING]

What's the problem with being able to run 3 to 6 classes with the same motor? When you only run three laps at a time, 6 total for the day, that is very disappointing to me. Drive 2 hours to ride in your boat for 20 minutes total for the weekend. That would drive me right out of the sport. Also we all know seat time is the key to success why would anyone want to limit a kids time on the water?

Shep

How about the Pro, Mod and D drivers that spend all day waiting for motors to get swapped and kids to get on plane. Not to mention always being looked to as volunteers because they don't run in every flight.
And another thing, when was the last time you saw a J/AXS driver or parent (other than Colin and Ashley) in a patrol boat ?
Oh wait I think I remember the Benders stepping up also... never mind

[thepiranhabros]

Hmmm...

How about the Pro, Mod and D drivers that spend all day waiting for motors to get swapped and kids to get on plane. Not to mention always being looked to as volunteers because they don't run in every flight.
And another thing, when was the last time you saw a J/AXS driver or parent (other than Colin and Ashley) in a patrol boat ?
Oh wait I think I remember the Benders stepping up also... never mind

I don't want to start a pis*ing match here with anybody, but I seem to recall nearly every R7 race my JH/JR driver and I attended this year that one or both of us spent time in a turn boat or flagging. I believe I even saw Shep, Olson, and Pavlick out in the big white boats too.

Michael Mackey
21-V

[AZ Outlaw]

Maybe an extra $15 to $20 extra in entry fee's per racer would help out with the situation like we do in Region 12. Times are tough economically, I know, but hear me out, cause our region has comparatively higher entry fee's for a reason. Having the extra income allows a club to hire trained and highly experienced rescue to do the event rather than a sign up sheet utilizing racers and crew. Safety is priceless in Region 12 were we run all categories at our events. (total of 69 entries/15 classes at Parker 2 weeks ago) It also affords the club to compensate some of its volunteers that may sit in a boat for 2 days straight so that a driver or crew member doesn't. A little financial help to a non racer goes a long way in recruiting more race volunteers. Those two things alone, keeps the event flowing a lot faster by not having to wait for patrol/rescue boat changes. Last but not least is the level of "fun" for the club volunteers. I have worked in judges stands, as a turn judge, rescue boat personnel, Pit/ramp manager, flagger...you name it...and I know it is a lot of work...FUN is the name of the game. When I was a kid, it was an honor to help the club because they and the racers always took care of me. I use to get a free T-shirt and hat signed by drivers, fresh homemade cookies from Racing Mom's, a quick thank you from the announcer. The little things the Arizona Navy club did, made it FUN to put it the long hours of work our race volunteers did, even in 110+ degree heat. Just my two cents....

[dwilderacer]

Anouther View

Jeff, I like your idea, but... I don't know any EMT's that understand the overlap rules. There is a reason that we need REAL drivers on the water too.

[AZ Outlaw]

Jeff, I like your idea, but... I don't know any EMT's that understand the overlap rules. There is a reason that we need REAL drivers on the water too.

True to some extent but, Do they need to be current participants/drivers competing at the event to do a good/non biased job?

[Shep]

How about the Pro, Mod and D drivers that spend all day waiting for motors to get swapped and kids to get on plane. Not to mention always being looked to as volunteers because they don't run in every flight.

That is a great point.

How about all the time we spend waiting for the broke stuff being towed in?

We can split hairs all day on this stuff, bottom line is it is a numbers game.

Every minute you can keep a new driver racing or riding increases our chances for growth and retention.

As far as volunters go boat racing is not unique, less than 10% do 100% of the work. This is common with any member driven orginization.

BTW set up and tear down is just as important as patrol boat and many of the j parents help there too!

[Racerkyle20]

I am not saying we should limit the water time a young driver should have.there are just too many 'A' classes. They DO need water time for sure.
You take out AX as the buffer class for J and A, because a 40 year old driver already can drive a boat. There's the next option for a buffer between J and A. We used to call it j-pro....or k-pro. Yes the speeds amd weight are a concern, but as a j parent you control the set up. The parent can make that boat as safe as they want it to be for more time on the water. AX is just another class that doesn't need to be there.

Approve the sidewinder for A. Approve the merc back into A, and let the competition of motor builders create a free market of racing motors!

[pav225]

Any restrictors or height restrictions required to have the Sidewinder and Merc run comparable to the OMC?

Same tuck under rule?

-Mike

[thepiranhabros]

Axing AX is not the answer

I am not saying we should limit the water time a young driver should have.there are just too many 'A' classes. They DO need water time for sure.
You take out AX as the buffer class for J and A, because a 40 year old driver already can drive a boat. There's the next option for a buffer between J and A. We used to call it j-pro....or k-pro. Yes the speeds amd weight are a concern, but as a j parent you control the set up. The parent can make that boat as safe as they want it to be for more time on the water. AX is just another class that doesn't need to be there.

Approve the sidewinder for A. Approve the merc back into A, and let the competition of motor builders create a free market of racing motors!

It is obvious that the AX class of today is not operating as it was originally intended (i.e., as a stepping stone for young drivers moving from J to A) as it is running nearly as fast (or in some cases, faster) than A, and there are veteran drivers infiltrating the class.

Rather than drop the class from the Junior Category ("Junior" being the operative word here), perhaps the time has come to reset the class by de-tuning it to a reasonable speed differential between J and A, and cap it with an age limit of 16. The current age range for J is 9 to 16, and entry age for A is 14. Frankly, the rule below is vague (intentionally or unintentionally), and can be interpreted two ways:

<B><I>SAFETY RULE 8 • Age Requirements
1. Junior Hydro and Junior Runabout drivers must be at least nine years of age, determined by birthdate. Drivers may not compete in Junior Hydro and Runabout classes after the end of the racing season in which they turn 16 years of age. AXSH and AXSR drivers must be at least 12 years of age.</B></I>

Technically, as AX is in the Junior Category, it should be held to the rule above regardless of the nomenclature of "Junior Hydro" and "Junior Runabout" being seemingly exclusive to mean only JH and JR respectively.

In other words, AXSH and AXSR should also be considered "Junior Hydro" and "Junior Runabout" within the confines of the above rule and thus held to the age requirement. ("Drivers may not compete in Junior Hydro and Runabout classes after the end of the racing season in which they turn 16 years of age.")

AX is not an A class. It it is a Junior class that is evolving into an A class because we are allowing it to happen, which was not its original intent.

Michael Mackey
21-V

[Big Don]

Listen, your club or region thinks running any class takes away from other classes don’t run it, it makes the day to long, don’t run it.... You think the AX class is wrong, don’t run it. You have that option.

Stock has no say in the J classes so quit lumping it in with the Stock category.

Start a different thread for the J class.

For every person that thinks we have to many A classes others will argue that 25H, BSR, DSH, DSR should be dropped because their region has none, while other regions have full fields.

We built this mess and now we have to figure a way out while not loosing members.

[AZ Outlaw]

Any restrictors or height restrictions required to have the Sidewinder and Merc run comparable to the OMC?

Same tuck under rule?

-Mike

Sure hope the current Sidewinder owners/racers that have tested the Merc or OMC for comparison data, are prepared to answer these and other questions, if they are currently not doing so to the SORC. Don't wait for a Commissioner to call or email you, be proactive and help the SORC understand the Sidewinder so they can make an informed decision at the National Meeting. If not, we could spend all 4 days of the meeting on the subject. I also hope that most of the SORC has made an effort to contact the aforementioned racers/owners in return themselves to acquire info.
Great questions Pav!
It just concerns me that these questions aired out on Hydroracer.net might not be getting to all of the SORC, but a select few!

Jeff C.