APBA Rules At Winternats (esp. numbers)

[Jack Stotts]

Gregg, I agreed with Russ that the hydro numbers were not legal because of the rule #10 para10 within the General Racing Rules which state "Numbers and letters will be black in color on a white background that is approximately elliptical or rectangular in shape. The reverse of the preceding is also acceptable". The key words are approximately elliptical or rectangular in shape. The back ground that kind of follows the shape of the letter is not approximately elliptical or rectangular. Of course neither are the ones on the full side of the boat like L-6 or Ed's 2US boat in the Avtar as shown in his posts on this subject or many others that simply put the numbers on the sides of a black or white boat. Bear in mind that I did not write the rule nor do I readily accept it. Boy, isn't this fun. The way the book is written, one can come up with something to counter almost every argument (read this as issue). I guess we will spend the weekend at Pineville re-numbering boats. Jack

[Dave M]

For L6's Boat

All you really need to do to make it legal without question is to get you some black tape, and tape a border around it. Then after each day of racing peel it off so the gooy stuff does not stick. Then you are good to go at your next race site... no border needed.

As for the rule book, if you read it all, you will end up in worse mental state than we already are. It is better left to smaller rooms and read while meditating for a few minutes each day. Remember, the rule book is not the same as the Tech Manual........ just to toss that into the mix. No wonder we only have lawyers following the rule book.

[bill boyes]

Hydro numbers on decks are recommended. ref rule 6 (2) pg 33. Very hard to read deck numbers on Hydros from the Judges stand. Do not the let the Race committee tell that you MUST have deck numbers on Hydroplanes. Show them the rule book.

[David_L6]

All you really need to do to make it legal without question is to get you some black tape, and tape a border around it. Then after each day of racing peel it off so the gooy stuff does not stick. Then you are good to go at your next race site... no border needed.

I can stay at home, not worry about whether or not my numbers comply with APBA rules, and save some money. Another benefit of doing that is that I won't have to sit through a looong boring drivers' meeting either.

[jeff55v]

Merc1, the words on GENERAL Safety and RACING Rule taking precedence over category rules is on the Rule Book title page just inside the front cover in the 07 and 08 books. I don't have my 09 book yet. It's in the third paragraph from the bottom in the 08 book. It, in essance, says General Safety and Racing Rules take precedence over category rules. Cat rules, however may be written to be more restrictive. The more restrictive may then prevail.
One could go crazy with the rule book so be careful. I think I'm about to lose it. I sure hope the opening of the 09 season comes quick. Jack

Concerning racing numbers, the General Racing Rules state the following:
EEEHHHEMMM..."Each of the respective catagories may establish it's own requirment concerning boat numbers. In the absence of such catagory requirements, the following requirments shall apply."
UNQUOTE. So, since THERE ARE CATEGORY REQUIRMENTS CONCERNING STOCK OUTBOARD RACING NUMBERS, THE GENERAL RACING RULES ARE NULL CONCERNING THIS.
Look in the specific category racing rules for racing number rules first.

We are fine with whatever the decision is, we just want to fix it before Pineville if we need to. The hydro is Joey's KPro boat and he has never ran it at a stock race. We hope to know in a couple weeks if we can make it to Pineville. We look forward to seeing you again.

The numbers look perfectly legal to me, according to the S.O. rules.

I can stay at home, not worry about whether or not my numbers comply with APBA rules, and save some money. Another benefit of doing that is that I won't have to sit through a looong boring drivers' meeting either.

David, your numbers look compliant to me also. Don't worry about it. And try not to take anything on Hydroracer too seriously. At least not at this time of year, all of us northerners have cabin fever.

[Jack Stotts]

Jeff, you may very well be correct. I'm basing my opinion on a couple things in the Rule Book. The first being what is provide in General Racing Rules in Rule 10para 10 which talks about elliptical or rectangular background and the general statement on the first page inside the front cover which states in speaking of categories writing rules which was authorized in the first mentioned referance, the categories may only add more restrictive details .

So. when it comes right down to , I don't don't have any idea what the final decision on numbers will be. It's hard to believe that something so simple could end up being so confusing. I guess we'll just have to wait and see because I don't have a clue! I hope Russ Waterson brings a roll of black and of white to Pineville. Jack

[14-H]

I can stay at home, not worry about whether or not my numbers comply with APBA rules, and save some money. Another benefit of doing that is that I won't have to sit through a looong boring drivers' meeting either.

David: Your numbers are legal. I do not have long driver's meetings. And they are definitely NOT boring. See you next month. Ed.

[oldpitguy]

This thread reminds me of a story....

Many years ago there was a monestary high in the mountains of Europe. In that
monestary lived an order of monks. Having taken a vow of silence, these monks lived a
life of silent contemplation.

Once a year, all of the monks would assemble and the head abbot would slect ONE MONK
and give him permission to speak.

One year Brother Timothy was selected. He rose to his feet, thought for a moment, cleared his throat and spoke: "I think there is too much salt in the porridge". That was it... he then sat down.

Another year passes in silence. At their annual assembly the head abbot selected Brother
John to speak. John stood up, paused, then announced "I don't think there is too much salt in the porridge.

Fast forward another year; another Annual Assembly. This time Brother Peter gets the nod. He slowly rises to his feet and proclaims " I quit! I can't stand this constant
bickering over the food!"

Forgive me... it's late...it's February.

otto

[bandit64061]

What he said

What he said!!!

I have not read all the posts in this thread, but if I had a dollar for every time we on the judges stand spent a half a lap saying things like,"is that an 1 or a 7"? I would be rich. We should have, in all of those instances, thrown the driver out. However, we dont. We wander up in the pits and inform the driver that the numbers are illegible, and then walk away.
Pretty numbers are great, if you're main goal is to have a PRETTY craft. Race numbers are for identification on a RACE craft. It's fun to sit around and try to interpret rules to fit ones own agenda. I have been guilty of that myself, but all you are doing is distracting from the main event, which is a boat RACE.
Now I am going down stairs to do something truly important, like polish throttles....

[mercguy]

Jeff, you may very well be correct. I'm basing my opinion on a couple things in the Rule Book. The first being what is provide in General Racing Rules in Rule 10para 10 which talks about elliptical or rectangular background and the general statement on the first page inside the front cover which states in speaking of categories writing rules which was authorized in the first mentioned referance, the categories may only add more restrictive details .

So. when it comes right down to , I don't don't have any idea what the final decision on numbers will be. It's hard to believe that something so simple could end up being so confusing. I guess we'll just have to wait and see because I don't have a clue! I hope Russ Waterson brings a roll of black and of white to Pineville. Jack

Jack, the 2009 Rule Book is much improved over previous issues. It does have a very good table of contents, which makes it much easier to find what you are looking for!

[dcrummett]

Way too many rules.
Dan

[bill van steenwyk]

a comparison

QUESTION:

Why is the APBA rule book like government??


ANSWER:

Because the older it gets, and the more folks involved, the more it grows.

[oknitro]

I agree with Dan , too many rules. APBA is a great organization only because it is filled with boat racers. But like so many other clubs or even government , they start out with good intentions and good people in the power spots , but soon everyone in power wants to leave their mark - hence more laws or more rules, some good , some not so good. I have work the clock and esp in the old days when the numbers were on the front of a 3-point hydro , it was hard to read. If a score keeper can't see your number , you might get a third instead of a first - or you might not even score when you should. THERE should be a number rule in the book , but it should be simple to understand. A little common sense can be applied, if your number is white on a light tan back ground , you should know they cant be seen or if you have graphics all around and the numbers blend in , come on , you know that won't work . The rule should be simple - 8-1/2" high - 2" stroke - dark on light or light on dark . Common sense should apply here - if you have none - then - do you really belong in a 70 mph plus race boat ? We should not have to have a rule to spell out how we put numbers on a boat so they can be seen.

[doc 35-0]

I agree, the numbers required are too thin with just a one inch stroke. Make it as big as possible, to be better seen. Our boats are yellow and a black number is easily seen, but I have to put a white back ground which is not necessary in our case. Avoid graphic near the number. The true test is to be seen going by the Judges stand. Doc

[Matt Dagostino]

Huge Contridiction Here........................

Hydro numbers on decks are recommended. ref rule 6 (2) pg 33. Very hard to read deck numbers on Hydros from the Judges stand. Do not the let the Race committee tell that you MUST have deck numbers on Hydroplanes. Show them the rule book.

How funny is it that the scoring committee or SORC on the one hand complains that it is tuff to read combing numbers even if they do comply with the rulebook but opt to remove the old rule which required deck numbers on hydros. It makes no sense?????????? Why remove the rule mandating deck numbers which ARE helpful for scoring purposes?

Plus deck numbers look cool.............

I have 'spotted' and when you are elevated like at Pineville or Wakefield from the judges stand deck numbers are a tool in identifying boats!

Won't be making Pineville this year, Eddy, how about saving me a doggy bag of Gator Parmashan from Tunk's!!