Attn: APBA DSR racers.

[jeff55v]

Says the Floridian...

I think having only 2 people race a class in an entire year may be reason enough to at least discuss the future of the class in APBA as far as being able to race for the same awards as the higher participation classes.

So, if we get four boats to compete in the class this year, we will have DOUBLED the class's participation. That's worth celebrating!

Just think of it this way Brad: We are..."restructuring"

Having barely enough boats to compete with comes with it's own challenges. For example: this thread.

[Gootz 142M]

Brian: This is the reason for the decline in DSR over the last 20 years; my comment was directed to the last 5.

By the way, I agree with everything you say except the "tiny runabouts" part. Real men don't put sissy fins on their runabout- they roll it up. Come try a BSR some time and you'll see why none of us carry those man purses and why PBR is so popular amongst BSR drivers! Eddie.

Let me add: My hats off to Ralph Cook who ran FER at Pineville in a roll-up boat. He was only 2-3 seconds off Luce's record set in a flat-turner and Cook rolled that baby up like it was nobody's business. Very impressive.

Amen Ed, Now I have to try to learn one of these drag fin things......Took a ride in a DSH and had a hell of a time rollin' it up.

[14-H]

***Thanks for not tossing me out at the nats Ed.

***.

What would have been the point? The people I recruited to run the race would've just overruled me! I felt like Rodney Dangerfield.

[14-H]

I*** I love the small runabouts... It is like listening to my ex-wife yell at me when they drive through the corners. "Waaannnt waaannnt waannnt" . ***.

I'm still laughing at this one. I'll never racer BSR again without thinking about this. Hilarious! Eddie.

[B Walker]

Jeff, I am not picking on you, really, you just happen to be at the center of the subject of interest.

My area of concern was simply that in other Divisions racers have gone to the Hall by competing well in low participation classes. In the process, they beat by a HOC point or two people that most felt were much more deserving, but competed in very high participation classes.

It looks like this has been addressed in all clamp-on classes in different ways by different divisions.

I just re-read the Stock Outboard Hall of Champions requirements and it looks like they have fixed the scenario I had in mind by adding a few things.

4. Stock Outboard Awards

A. Stock Outboard Hall Of Champions

1) To be eligible, a member must have:
a) Won a National Closed Course Championship with 12 bona fide starters in the event
-OR
b) Won a National Closed Course High Point Championship having competed in 12 or more races.
2) Once eligibility is established, the driver shall be awarded points for accomplishments in that year according to the following table:
a) Won a National Closed Course Championship
with 12 bona fide starters . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 points each
b) Won a National Closed Course High Point Championship
with 12 or more races . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 points each
c) Won a Winter National Championship
with 8 or more bona fide starters . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 points each
d) Henry Menzies Award winner. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1-1/2 points
e) Jerry Waldman Award winner . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1-1/2 points
f) Marathon National Champion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 point each
g) Won a Divisional Championship with
8 or more bona fide starters . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 point each
h) Set a Stock Outboard record . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 points each

Jeff, go race! Have fun! You make it to FL beers on me.....hope ya like Miller Lite.

BW

[DSR 244M]

Hall of Champions

"My area of concern was simply that in other Divisions racers have gone to the Hall by competing well in low participation classes. In the process, they beat by a HOC point or two people that most felt were much more deserving, but competed in very high participation classes"




OK, now the class is really going to have some problems getting entries. You caught us. The DSR class has secretly been trying to get drivers into the hall of champions with the least amount of participation as possible. Thank you for uncovering this conspiracy! You have been of great service to APBA, and the Stock Outboard Category. Next time read your rule book before attacking a class that you do not participate in.

[DSR 244M]

Constantine

Is there anybody out there interested in racing closed course in the DSR class this season? I'm trying to plan out my 2009 season right now. I'm thinking Constantine, MI. June 20-21 might be the best place for us to get together. I'm not going to any races unless I can find three other competitors who are firm on their plan to be there also. Please post here, or PM me to let me know what race or races you'd like to meet up at. I'm flexible, and just wanna race.

Jeff, Put me down for DSR @ Constantine, and let me see who else i can round up from up here.

Veum

[Dave M]

Novel Idea

Who cares if they run a roll up or a flat turner as long as they race.... Grow the sport and the class. Look to the Mod classes, 750CCR and 850CCR, those classses have grew a lot since the flat turners caught on. Not everyone is skilled at rolling up. It makes it easier for a die hard hydro guy to race runabouts and add another class for real cheap, only cost is a boat. Flat turners will run the same props as your hydro if it is built right. Simple economics if you ask me. I could care less what style you run, just get it on the water and lets race. If you want to roll it up go for it. I respect that. If you want to flat turn it go for it.

And I agree with Ed hearn, Ralph and his roll up in 850CCR is impressive. It takes some big ones to roll it up at that speed. I ain't doing it. Watch out though, Ralph might actually squeeze the throttle and break that record some day. Or get a flat turner... he does that and I think we all know what would happen.

[pearson95m]

Wow, a lot of activity since I last checked…

Dean: I hear ya man. If it were up to me, I’d strap my daughter to be to my back and get her started early. However, the wife thinks that’s unsafe… I know I know, she’s overreacting... haha… Truth is that she’s the type to stress out with change (and she’s a democrat… go figure). Having our first is stressing her out and she needs me to be around. Once I get her to relax and into a routine, all will be good.

Ed: You’re right about superlight’s… It hurt our class. I also think it was a timing thing. Many of the guys who ran D either went to superlights or retired from racing all together. We never really got a “new generation” of drivers for that class. We’ve been trying (thanks Butch)…

And… I would love to get back into a B again, if I could only fit. In fact, that goes for all the small boat classes. Some of my best memories are from those years when I ran A and B. However that was 10 years and 50lbs ago, now I’m 250lbs (me+gear) which leaves only 100 lbs for boat and motor… Hell, I’m 30lbs over in my D. But at least there is enough power to push that extra weight with a D.

I also find it easier to roll up verses the side fin (unless you’re out front in flat water). I’m all for banning side fins from all runabouts… but I know the C class in particular would drop in numbers. However, many of those drivers might move to B or 25. Hmmmm

DHolt: : ) I already know I’m fat… thanks for reminding me… haha… but even if I was skinny again, I’d still be over 200#’s.

BW: I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. However there are a couple flaws in your theory. One, by removing some of these larger classes you are essentially eliminated the possibility for “larger” people to compete at all. Unless changes are made to the smaller classes to level the playing field. Also, by not offering the same reward in these classes only lowers the incentive to even race these classes. Two, I would argue that after the top 7 or 8 drivers in each class from year to year, the rest aren’t even in the same level. If fact, if you look at races attended you might find that after the top 7 or 8 guys the number of races attended drops significantly. In fact, with the exception of a couple classes, the majority of the people only attended 1 or 2 races.

Bottom line, I think the rules they have now are fare. The only exception I would make would be to have a Hall inductee due to his/her lifelong racing career. I know a few guys that I feel deserve to be placed in the hall but never will because life obligations kept them from going to 8 or 10 races a year. Even though I feel these drivers dominated the few races a year they could attend. And they did so year after year over the course of a lifetime. Some people in my opinion have “bought” their way into the hall because they can afford to race 3 or 4 classes and go to 20 races a year. Again, some of the new rules for the hall have helped with this stat. This is why I think the rules now are fare.

In my opinion people aren’t getting into the D class for a couple reasons… One, the startup cost isn’t worth it at this time. I think if we had a full field of competitive drivers, then it would be worth it for a new driver to invest. Right now, nobody is going to buy the equipment in hopes that 10 others do the same. Two, I think there is a misconception of what the class is like. I hear it all the time; “you guys are crazy”. And even though that helps my ego a bit, it isn’t true. I’ve raced every runabout class and 2 hydro classes in my 20 years. And it’s not much different than any other class. The biggest difference is in the power/acceleration. If you run a C, you can run a D. In fact, if you’re in the 180-200lbs range, you’d be pretty darn fast in a D. Everyone that I know in D (except Butch) is well over on weight.

whew… that was longer than I expected

Josh

[B Walker]

OK, now the class is really going to have some problems getting entries. You caught us. The DSR class has secretly been trying to get drivers into the hall of champions with the least amount of participation as possible. Thank you for uncovering this conspiracy! You have been of great service to APBA, and the Stock Outboard Category. Next time read your rule book before attacking a class that you do not participate in.

Sarcasm aside, I have a difficult time interpreting anything I have written here as an attack of any type. In fact I think I went considerably out of my way not to attack anyone or a particular class.

I simply think there should be a formal process for removing a class to maintain the spirit and intent of Stock Outboard and feel my proposal is rational and reasonable. Please respond to my proposal, not to me personally. My intent is to have a discussion on a formal process for eliminating a class from the Stock Outboard Division. Currently, there is not one. If you dont like my proposal, let me hear yours.

Here is mine:

"If four boats in a class do not compete at the Nationals, then the class goes on probationary status until it does. If after 2 years in a row of no entries in the class, the SORC shall vote to maintain the class."

BW: I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. However there are a couple flaws in your theory. One, by removing some of these larger classes you are essentially eliminated the possibility for “larger” people to compete at all. Unless changes are made to the smaller classes to level the playing field. Also, by not offering the same reward in these classes only lowers the incentive to even race these classes. Two, I would argue that after the top 7 or 8 drivers in each class from year to year, the rest aren’t even in the same level. If fact, if you look at races attended you might find that after the top 7 or 8 guys the number of races attended drops significantly. In fact, with the exception of a couple classes, the majority of the people only attended 1 or 2 races.

The current leadership of Stock Outboard has expressed for years a desire for Stock Outboard to be limited to new and factory reconditioned motors available for immediate purchase by a new or returning racer.

Newsflash: We are in the middle of this transition.

In every case so far an owner of equipment that does not fit this criterion for Stock Outboard has not been beached and stuck with equipment. Other motor owners have been offered a place to race as special event, Stock Outboard Classic, or in the Modified Outboard Division. At least they can race and are not stuck with instantly worthless equipment. A lesson learned during the Merc/OMC transition of 1985.

There is an elephant in the room and let me address him: The 44XS does not fit the new paradigm of new motors available now. The Tohatsu has not caught on quick enough to stand on its own and it is not looking good. The clock is ticking. One day the SORC is gonna meet and pull the plug on the 44XS, or, a proposal for an orderly transition can be written, proposed, and passed. This is what I am proposing for discussion here. A simple proposal. Everyone agrees we have too many classes, but nobody proposes a solution.

I would rather know the process up front than wait year to year sitting on the edge of my seat and holding my breath and wait on a vote by the SORC every year to find out what Division I fit into next year. But maybe the current process does not bother other people as much as it bothers me. Here is the place to offer alternative proposals or to validate the status quo.

People tend to vote with their feet and the growth in large Modified runabout classes of all types should serve as an indicator for the new era.

discuss

Brad Walker

[jeff55v]

Boat count 5!

Everyone agrees we have too many classes, but nobody proposes a solution.

discuss

Brad Walker

Brad, Thanks for your input. I know you have nothing but the best of intentions for APBA racers. But, this thread is about gathering and resurecting the DSR class racers. I doubt you will find any DSR racers on this thread who will agree with eliminating their class. Perhaps you should voice your opinion at the next National meeting instead.
Let's keep it positive here.

Thanks Todd for your help in the boat count! This is gonna be great!

[Kev43V]

How many people that have DSR's can field 2, if they find a driver for boat #2?
how many people would take a D-ride if the ride was offered at a race they were at?

would those that want to build the class be willing and able, to pony up the entry fee for "their driver"

Just wondering

[Gootz 142M]

How many people that have DSR's can field 2, if they find a driver for boat #2?
how many people would take a D-ride if the ride was offered at a race they were at?

would those that want to build the class be willing and able, to pony up the entry fee for "their driver"

Just wondering

Todd,

I'll drive that marathon rig of your's if you bring it.

[DSR 244M]

Todd,

I'll drive that marathon rig of your's if you bring it.

Dont think i'm going to pay for your entry fee, or your beer!

[Gootz 142M]

Dont think i'm going to pay for your entry fee, or your beer!

No. But I WILL buy you a beer or 12!!!!!! By the way you would lose more on the beer than the entry fee.........

Gootz